Not So Trivial: Things That Can Kill Your Focus


Summary

This episode challenges the common assumption that our brains can prioritize important tasks independently of our physical environment and bodily state. Host Jonathan Cottrell argues that seemingly trivial factors—like room temperature, desk clutter, hydration, and exercise—have a profound, measurable impact on our ability to focus and produce quality work. He cites studies showing colder environments increase error rates and discusses how our brains are wired to constantly process sensory input from our surroundings, whether we consciously acknowledge it or not.

The discussion centers on the dissonance between our belief in our brain’s executive control and its physical, efficiency-driven nature. We like to think we can sort through priorities and direct our attention, but our cognitive capacity is deeply tied to basic physical needs and environmental conditions. The host emphasizes that ignoring these “trivial” factors leads to diminished reasoning, focus, and work quality.

Practical solutions are offered to bridge this gap. First, the practice of “brain dumping”—writing down stressors and things to look forward to—helps clear mental clutter and signals the brain to stop background processing. Second, physically cleaning and organizing your workspace reduces cognitive load, as studies show clutter actively hinders focus. Third, attending to fundamental physical needs like proper hydration and regular exercise is non-negotiable for sustained mental performance.

The episode frames these strategies not as life hacks but as necessary acknowledgments of our brain’s physicality. By managing our environment and bodily state, we create the conditions for deep focus, moving beyond the illusion of pure willpower. The host connects these ideas to broader concepts from books like Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman and Essentialism, highlighting the importance of designing a conducive context for high-quality thinking.


Recommendations

Books

  • Thinking, Fast and Slow — A book by Nobel Prize-winning economist Daniel Kahneman, cited as the source for many of the ideas discussed about how the brain works, cognitive biases, and the two systems of thinking.
  • Essentialism — A book recommended for deeper reading on eliminating clutter—both physical and mental—and focusing on what is truly essential, relating to the tip about cleaning up your workspace.

Methodologies

  • Getting Things Done (GTD) — A productivity methodology mentioned as a proponent of the practice of getting everything out of your head and into a manageable, external system to reduce cognitive load.

People

  • Donald Miller — Mentioned in the context of his StoryBrand podcast, where he discusses the idea of writing down things you are looking forward to each day to combat procrastination and improve focus.

Tools

  • Quip — A note-taking application the host personally uses for ‘brain dumping’ and writing things down to get them out of his mind, though it is not a sponsor of the show.

Topic Timeline

  • 00:00:00Introduction to Trivial Factors — The host opens with provocative questions about room temperature, desk clutter, breakfast, and sunlight, framing them as seemingly trivial things that actually impact focus. He introduces the episode’s core theme: how the trivial can be more important than we expect for cognitive performance and productivity.
  • 00:01:34The Science of Temperature and Productivity — Citing a behavioral study, the host reveals the optimal room temperature for productivity is around 77°F (25°C). He explains that people in colder environments tend to make more mistakes and have lower productivity. This serves as a concrete example of how a physical environmental factor we often ignore directly affects work output.
  • 00:02:58The Brain’s Physicality and Efficiency — The discussion delves into the core problem: we ignore the physical nature of our brains. Our brains are wired for efficiency and take shortcuts, but they are also constantly processing signals from our body and environment (hunger, cold, clutter, relationship stress). We mistakenly believe we can fully control our focus while disregarding these inputs.
  • 00:09:22Practical Tip 1: Write Things Down — The host recommends the practice of writing down stressors and things you look forward to. This ‘brain dumping’ process externalizes thoughts, takes them out of active mental processing, and provides a sense of release. He references David Allen’s ‘Getting Things Done’ methodology and personal experience with using tools like Quip for this purpose.
  • 00:13:35Practical Tip 2: Clean Your Space — Simply cleaning and decluttering your physical workspace is presented as a critical step. Studies show clutter negatively affects focus because your brain subconsciously processes the disordered environment. The host recommends the book Essentialism for deeper exploration of eliminating material and mental clutter.
  • 00:15:14Practical Tip 3: Hydration and Exercise — The host emphasizes meeting fundamental physical needs—specifically drinking enough water and getting regular exercise—as foundational for clear thinking. He argues we often wrongly categorize these as trivial, but they directly impact cognitive function and our ability to do our best work, framing them as non-negotiable for focus.
  • 00:17:14Conclusion and Recap — The episode concludes by acknowledging many other factors (mental health, monetary issues) could be discussed, but the goal was to provide a framework for thinking about environmental and physical optimization. The host thanks the listener and the sponsor, Linode, reiterating the core message: design your context to support focus.

Episode Info

  • Podcast: Developer Tea
  • Author: Jonathan Cutrell
  • Category: Technology Business Careers Society & Culture
  • Published: 2017-03-03T10:00:00Z
  • Duration: 00:18:01

References


Podcast Info


Transcript

[00:00:00] What temperature is it in the room that you’re currently sitting?

[00:00:07] Is your desk cluttered or is it clean?

[00:00:11] What did you eat for breakfast this morning or have you had breakfast this morning?

[00:00:16] How much sunlight are you getting today?

[00:00:20] These may sound like trivial things, but in today’s episode,

[00:00:24] we’re going to talk about how the trivial can actually be more important than we expected it to be.

[00:00:30] My name is Jonathan Cottrell and you’re listening to Developer Tea.

[00:00:34] Thank you for joining me today.

[00:00:35] I want to take just a moment and give a little bit of credit to a book that I’ve been reading

[00:00:41] for some of the thoughts that have been on Developer Tea recently

[00:00:44] and will continue to be on Developer Tea.

[00:00:46] The book is incredibly rich.

[00:00:48] It’s called Thinking Fast and Slow.

[00:00:50] It’s by Daniel Kahneman.

[00:00:52] If you’ve never read this book,

[00:00:54] by the way, it’s very good and it will make you feel both much more enlightened

[00:01:00] and also much more aware of your shortcomings.

[00:01:03] So a lot of what I’m going to be talking about today,

[00:01:06] you can find some kind of reference to in Daniel’s book, Thinking Fast and Slow.

[00:01:11] Daniel Kahneman is a Nobel Prize winning economist, by the way,

[00:01:16] and the book is a lengthy read, but it is certainly worth every minute.

[00:01:20] I’ve been incredibly engaged by the book,

[00:01:23] so highly recommend.

[00:01:24] I’m in that book if you haven’t read it yet.

[00:01:26] So if you haven’t checked the temperature in your room yet,

[00:01:29] you may be surprised to find out that the optimum temperature for a given room

[00:01:36] for the highest productivity is around 77 degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:01:41] Now, how did we come up with that number?

[00:01:43] It wasn’t by studying the human body.

[00:01:46] It was actually done through a behavioral study,

[00:01:48] and it found that people who were in colder environments

[00:01:53] tended to have a higher productivity.

[00:01:54] They tended to make more mistakes.

[00:01:56] And this was published as secondary research by Buffer,

[00:02:00] and I read the article on it.

[00:02:02] The very interesting thing here is that people also report that

[00:02:06] even adding temperature modification,

[00:02:11] such as a heating pad or an ice pack,

[00:02:14] can greatly increase the morale of your team.

[00:02:18] So what is it about temperature that matters so much?

[00:02:21] Or a better question,

[00:02:24] let’s zoom out a little bit from this picture.

[00:02:26] Why is the trivial so important?

[00:02:29] Or when is the trivial so important?

[00:02:32] We like to think that we have a good mechanism

[00:02:37] for understanding the importance of a given thing.

[00:02:42] That our brain can sort through what is and what is not important.

[00:02:48] And that when we’ve done that sorting,

[00:02:51] when our brain is done finding the most important things,

[00:02:54] that we can then subsequently focus on those things.

[00:02:58] The problem is we’re ignoring a large part of the way our brain works

[00:03:02] when we think this way.

[00:03:05] And in particular, we’re ignoring the physical nature of our brains.

[00:03:12] Our brains are wired to be as efficient as possible.

[00:03:15] This is what we’ve talked about in the past on the show.

[00:03:18] We are wired to take shortcuts with our brains

[00:03:22] to immediately change our behavior.

[00:03:24] Take for granted, for example,

[00:03:26] our route to work each and every day.

[00:03:29] And so if you want a more dynamic day,

[00:03:33] then it’s possible that simply taking a new route to work

[00:03:37] will fire up your brain.

[00:03:39] What do I mean by fire up your brain?

[00:03:42] Well, quite simply, you’re going to have to think a little bit more

[00:03:45] on that new route to work.

[00:03:47] Our brains also have the unique ability

[00:03:50] to be connected to the rest of our body.

[00:03:54] The rest of our body is sending signals to our brain

[00:03:56] and those signals have to be processed.

[00:04:01] So if you’re hungry or if you’re cold

[00:04:04] or maybe you ate something that doesn’t agree

[00:04:07] with your stomach this morning

[00:04:08] or maybe there’s some kind of thing

[00:04:11] that’s happening in a relationship

[00:04:13] that you haven’t resolved

[00:04:15] or maybe your desk is simply cluttered.

[00:04:18] All of these things enter your brain in one way or another

[00:04:22] and it’s all through physical,

[00:04:24] means your senses.

[00:04:25] You’re sensing the things around you

[00:04:27] and as those things enter your brain,

[00:04:30] your brain is processing them.

[00:04:31] Now, on the flip side,

[00:04:33] the side of us that thinks we can prioritize well.

[00:04:38] We don’t like to think of our brain

[00:04:40] as something as physical as it is.

[00:04:43] And this is where we get the label of trivial.

[00:04:47] How do we actually get a hold of this

[00:04:50] or at least how can we become a little bit more aware

[00:04:54] and try to make space for focus?

[00:04:57] That’s what we’re going to talk about

[00:04:58] right after today’s quick sponsor break for Linode.

[00:05:03] One of the ways that you can increase focus in your life

[00:05:06] is to simplify things.

[00:05:08] And there’s nothing more simple

[00:05:10] when it comes to server processes than Linux, right?

[00:05:15] Linux does one thing at a time

[00:05:17] and it does one thing at a time very well.

[00:05:20] And that’s exactly what Linode provides.

[00:05:22] Linode provides Linux.

[00:05:24] Not only do they provide Linux in the cloud,

[00:05:27] but they do so at an incredible rate.

[00:05:30] Specifically, Linode is offering basically double

[00:05:34] what most competitors are offering

[00:05:36] in terms of RAM per dollar.

[00:05:39] And this is really the common bottleneck for most servers

[00:05:43] unless you have a ton of stuff

[00:05:45] that you need to put on the server.

[00:05:46] If you have a simple application,

[00:05:48] most of the time your bottleneck is going to be in the RAM.

[00:05:52] Linode’s base plan.

[00:05:53] This is for $5 a month.

[00:05:55] This is their base plan.

[00:05:57] For $5 a month, you get a gigabyte of memory.

[00:06:01] This is double what most people offer on their low-end plans.

[00:06:05] Their high memory plans start at 16 gigabytes for $60 a month.

[00:06:09] And they’ve upgraded their storage from 24 to 30 gigabytes

[00:06:14] on their 2 gigabyte RAM plan for $10 a month.

[00:06:18] $10 a month will get you 30 gigs and 2 gigs of RAM.

[00:06:22] That’s incredible.

[00:06:22] That’s an incredible plan.

[00:06:22] That’s an incredible plan.

[00:06:22] That’s an incredible plan.

[00:06:23] That’s an incredible plan.

[00:06:23] That’s an incredible deal.

[00:06:24] You get full control on these servers.

[00:06:26] They run on native SSD storage and a 40 gigabit internal network.

[00:06:31] And these servers are built on top of Intel E5 processors.

[00:06:35] These are the things that if you listen to Developer T,

[00:06:37] you know this about Linode.

[00:06:39] But if you have been listening and you’ve been holding out,

[00:06:42] now is a fantastic time to get your base server started.

[00:06:47] Linode is offering you $20 of credit

[00:06:49] when you check out and use the code DEVELOPERT2017.

[00:06:52] DEVELOPERT2017.

[00:06:53] That’s all one word, DEVELOPERT2017.

[00:06:55] If you use that base plan,

[00:06:57] that’s four months, an entire third of a year for free

[00:07:02] just for using the code DEVELOPERT2017.

[00:07:05] Go and check it out, spec.fm slash Linode.

[00:07:08] Thank you again to Linode for sponsoring Developer T

[00:07:11] for quite a long time now, by the way.

[00:07:13] Linode is a highly valued sponsor to Developer T,

[00:07:16] a huge part of the reason why Developer T

[00:07:19] has been able to continue doing what we do.

[00:07:22] So we’re very thankful.

[00:07:23] We’re very thankful for the people over at Linode.

[00:07:25] So we have this dissonance between what we think

[00:07:29] we’re able to do with our brains.

[00:07:32] We think we’re able to sort through what is important

[00:07:35] and direct our attention and our focus

[00:07:38] into what is important.

[00:07:40] We like to think that our brain is just as capable today

[00:07:44] as it was yesterday to solve problems.

[00:07:47] But there’s amazing statistics and studies.

[00:07:51] They stack up.

[00:07:53] If you Google this stuff, these studies stack up

[00:07:56] and basically show that your environment

[00:07:59] and the things that are happening in your life

[00:08:01] have a massive impact on your ability to reason,

[00:08:05] on your ability to focus,

[00:08:08] and on your ability to do good work.

[00:08:10] Specifically, in that previous study about temperature,

[00:08:14] we’re talking about error rates.

[00:08:16] Writing bugs happens when the room is colder.

[00:08:20] Now, that sounds like an oversimplification,

[00:08:22] which is preposterous.

[00:08:23] But that’s probably why our brains reject this idea.

[00:08:26] We want to live in an elevated state.

[00:08:29] We don’t like to think that the temperature

[00:08:32] has an effect on something that we are writing,

[00:08:35] especially if the thing we are writing

[00:08:37] is, in our brains, non-trivial.

[00:08:40] The thing that we’re writing is something

[00:08:42] that we are intentionally focusing on

[00:08:44] and we’ve forgotten about the temperature in the room.

[00:08:48] Or so we think.

[00:08:49] The problem is our brain is still processing

[00:08:52] the temperature in the room.

[00:08:52] So how do we get over this?

[00:08:56] Or at least, how do we become more aware of it?

[00:08:59] Well, the first step is listening to today’s episode.

[00:09:03] Luckily now, you have at least engaged the idea

[00:09:06] that your brain is not only a product

[00:09:09] of what you have directed it to do,

[00:09:12] but also a product of the environment.

[00:09:14] There’s a few other very practical things

[00:09:16] that you can do to best prepare yourself

[00:09:20] for a given day.

[00:09:22] One of the things I like to do,

[00:09:24] I like to spend some time,

[00:09:26] some introspective time,

[00:09:28] whenever I feel overwhelmed in particular.

[00:09:31] And hopefully, this is kind of when I’m at that

[00:09:34] massive limit, the high-level limit

[00:09:36] of my cognitive ability.

[00:09:38] When I get super stressed out,

[00:09:41] when I feel anxiety,

[00:09:43] when I feel frustration,

[00:09:44] I like to take a moment

[00:09:46] and try to search my brain,

[00:09:50] actively search my brain,

[00:09:52] to see if there’s anything that I can do

[00:09:53] to help me get over this.

[00:09:54] And I think that’s one of the things

[00:09:56] that I think are stressing me out.

[00:09:57] I write those things down.

[00:09:58] And this simple process of writing this down

[00:10:00] takes it out of my brain and puts it onto paper.

[00:10:02] This is how I visualize it.

[00:10:03] I remove that thing from my brain

[00:10:05] and I put it onto paper

[00:10:06] in order to deal with it

[00:10:08] at the time that I decide to deal with it.

[00:10:12] And this sends a signal to my brain

[00:10:14] that it’s okay to stop processing this idea.

[00:10:18] Now, whether or not this is actually effective,

[00:10:21] this is most likely,

[00:10:22] mostly anecdotal from my position.

[00:10:24] I’ve heard of other people doing similar things.

[00:10:26] For example,

[00:10:27] Donald Miller talks about

[00:10:29] on his StoryBrand podcast,

[00:10:31] he discusses the idea

[00:10:32] of writing down the things

[00:10:34] that you are looking forward to today.

[00:10:37] So at the beginning of your day,

[00:10:39] it may be that you are procrastinating

[00:10:41] because you’re waiting for something good to happen

[00:10:44] and you don’t really want to be working.

[00:10:46] And so you’re waiting for something good to happen

[00:10:48] and you’re giving yourself minor rewards

[00:10:51] throughout the day.

[00:10:52] And so you’re waiting for something good to happen

[00:10:53] throughout the day by procrastinating.

[00:10:53] And ultimately, you don’t get your work done.

[00:10:55] And his idea is that

[00:10:57] if you write down what you’re looking forward to,

[00:10:59] that gives you the ability

[00:11:01] to know that something good is going to happen that day

[00:11:04] or know that something enjoyable will happen that day.

[00:11:07] This is something that I’ve tried

[00:11:09] and it has been effective for me.

[00:11:11] This is kind of on the positive end of the spectrum.

[00:11:13] On the negative end of the spectrum,

[00:11:15] there are things that I can identify

[00:11:16] that are stressing me out.

[00:11:19] And sometimes if you’ve ever felt this way,

[00:11:21] and this is something that I’ve tried,

[00:11:22] and this is something that I’ve tried,

[00:11:22] and this is kind of the source of anxiety for me

[00:11:24] and for a lot of other people,

[00:11:25] that somehow you’ve forgotten to do something

[00:11:28] or that somehow something has slipped through the cracks

[00:11:31] and it’s going to come back and haunt you later.

[00:11:35] If you take a moment and actively engage

[00:11:38] the things that are in your brain

[00:11:39] that you were intending to do for the day

[00:11:42] and you search it and you can’t find something,

[00:11:45] this is kind of a final sense of release.

[00:11:48] This is what I’ve found it to be for me,

[00:11:50] a final sense of release.

[00:11:51] A final sense that I have actually dealt with

[00:11:54] what I needed to deal with today.

[00:11:57] So practical tip number one is write down the things

[00:11:59] that are either stressing you out

[00:12:01] or that you can look forward to today.

[00:12:04] Preferably both.

[00:12:06] Both the positive and the negative end of the spectrum.

[00:12:09] Kind of emptying your brain out.

[00:12:10] This has actually been studied

[00:12:11] for a few other types of efforts.

[00:12:16] The get things done practice,

[00:12:18] the GTD if you’ve ever heard of it.

[00:12:20] They are a big practice.

[00:12:21] They are a big proponent of this

[00:12:22] getting everything out and into a manageable state.

[00:12:25] So that would be step number one.

[00:12:27] Take some time, write it down or use,

[00:12:29] I actually use Quip for this.

[00:12:31] Quip is not a sponsor of the show

[00:12:33] but it’s worked out really well for me.

[00:12:35] So I’d recommend Quip or any other note application

[00:12:38] that you have access to.

[00:12:40] Writing things down also tends to help me

[00:12:42] because I can draw on the margins

[00:12:44] and point things out and underline them very easily.

[00:12:47] So I connect well with drawings.

[00:12:49] Not everyone does.

[00:12:51] Try things, see what works for you

[00:12:53] to get things out of your mind.

[00:12:55] And that’s kind of the active engagement

[00:12:57] of those either subconscious thoughts

[00:12:59] or things that are stressing you out

[00:13:01] that you don’t want to really deal with

[00:13:03] or actively engage.

[00:13:05] Perhaps take those out of your mind,

[00:13:07] put them on paper.

[00:13:08] Even if you tear that paper up,

[00:13:09] the process of getting those things out of your head

[00:13:12] and articulated is kind of a healthy process.

[00:13:16] Tip number two to deal with this incongruence

[00:13:20] between our processes,

[00:13:21] the processing side,

[00:13:22] the side of our brains that we believe

[00:13:24] is kind of ourselves,

[00:13:26] our thinking brain,

[00:13:28] and dealing with how our brain

[00:13:30] is actually physically engaging the world.

[00:13:33] Tip number two is to quite simply

[00:13:35] clean up the area around you.

[00:13:36] There’s a significant amount of study

[00:13:38] that shows that clutter,

[00:13:40] that it actually affects our ability to focus.

[00:13:43] There’s not a lot of expounding I want to do on that

[00:13:46] other than to say,

[00:13:47] even if you feel like you are okay

[00:13:50] with the clutter,

[00:13:52] the statistics and the studies

[00:13:54] effectively show that your brain

[00:13:56] is not okay with the clutter,

[00:13:58] that it’s actually having to process those things.

[00:14:01] So try cleaning up.

[00:14:02] There’s very little bad that can happen

[00:14:05] from tidying up the area,

[00:14:07] at least actively engaging the things

[00:14:09] and putting them in a place

[00:14:11] that was meant for those things.

[00:14:13] If you want to read a little bit more

[00:14:15] on actively engaging

[00:14:18] and cleaning up your space,

[00:14:20] and the benefits of cleaning up your space,

[00:14:23] and it goes into more depth

[00:14:25] about owning too many things

[00:14:27] and materialism and that kind of stuff,

[00:14:29] go read the book, Essentialism.

[00:14:32] This has been recommended to me

[00:14:33] by quite a few people.

[00:14:34] I actually haven’t read the whole thing.

[00:14:36] I have read snippets and summaries of the book,

[00:14:39] but it deals with the subject

[00:14:41] of eliminating clutter

[00:14:43] and removing the extra things

[00:14:46] that we have in our life.

[00:14:47] So tip number one,

[00:14:48] write everything, get it out of your brain.

[00:14:50] Write it down, put it on paper

[00:14:52] or in your computer.

[00:14:54] Make sure that it’s in some tangible format

[00:14:56] where you have created

[00:14:58] a visible representation of these things.

[00:15:01] Sometimes these things will end up

[00:15:02] being converted into actionable tasks,

[00:15:05] by the way.

[00:15:06] But that process of getting it out of your brain.

[00:15:09] Step number two,

[00:15:10] quite simply clean up the area around you.

[00:15:12] And tip number three,

[00:15:14] make sure you are getting enough water

[00:15:16] and exercise.

[00:15:18] Well, this seems obvious,

[00:15:20] but once again,

[00:15:21] we put this stuff into a bucket.

[00:15:25] We put water into a bucket of triviality

[00:15:27] where it wouldn’t affect our mental state.

[00:15:32] We don’t think,

[00:15:33] at least intuitively,

[00:15:34] we don’t believe

[00:15:35] that having slightly less water

[00:15:37] than we really need,

[00:15:40] that that’s going to affect our ability to focus.

[00:15:43] Or that not exercising for a couple of weeks

[00:15:46] isn’t really going to affect our ability to focus.

[00:15:50] The statistics, once again,

[00:15:51] greatly disagree with this.

[00:15:54] A very simple proof of this idea

[00:15:56] is that if you were to go without water

[00:15:58] for multiple days,

[00:16:00] then eventually you would actually die.

[00:16:03] And it’s also true, on the other hand,

[00:16:05] that if you drink too much water

[00:16:07] that you would die.

[00:16:08] But the basic concept here

[00:16:10] is that the amount of water you take in

[00:16:12] does affect your well-being.

[00:16:14] And your well-being affects your ability to think.

[00:16:18] And this is really,

[00:16:19] this comes down to our fundamental physical needs.

[00:16:24] And if we aren’t meeting our fundamental physical needs,

[00:16:26] the things that we often like to,

[00:16:29] once again,

[00:16:30] sequester into this bucket of trivial,

[00:16:33] if we aren’t meeting those things,

[00:16:35] then we are unable to think clearly

[00:16:37] when we are unable to do our best work.

[00:16:40] Water and exercise,

[00:16:41] pretty much everyone can agree on those two things.

[00:16:45] But really, those are a stand-in

[00:16:47] for meeting your physical health needs.

[00:16:49] That’s incredibly important to your ability

[00:16:51] to focus on a regular basis.

[00:16:54] There are so many other things

[00:16:55] we could have talked about today.

[00:16:56] We could have talked about issues of mental health.

[00:16:59] We could have talked about other environmental factors.

[00:17:02] We could have talked about monetary factors.

[00:17:05] There’s no way we’re going to cover it all

[00:17:06] in today’s episode,

[00:17:07] but I wanted to give you kind of an idea

[00:17:08] of what direction you can be thinking

[00:17:11] in order to deal with some of these problems.

[00:17:14] Thank you so much for listening to Developer Tea.

[00:17:16] Thank you again to Linode

[00:17:17] for sponsoring today’s episode.

[00:17:19] Of Developer Tea.

[00:17:20] Once again, it’s a great time to jump in

[00:17:22] if you’ve been holding out on buying into Linode.

[00:17:25] Go and check it out, spec.fm slash Linode.

[00:17:27] They have a one gigabyte plan for $5 a month.

[00:17:30] They’re giving you $20 worth of credit,

[00:17:32] which means you get four months effectively for free

[00:17:35] on that one gigabyte plan.

[00:17:37] Once again, spec.fm slash Linode.

[00:17:40] Thank you so much for listening

[00:17:41] to today’s episode of Developer Tea.

[00:17:43] You can find everything related to Developer Tea

[00:17:45] and other awesome shows on spec.fm.

[00:17:49] Do you have any questions?

[00:17:49] Do something today to level up in your career.

[00:17:52] Thanks so much for listening.

[00:17:53] And until next time, enjoy your tea.