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Leitura de 96 min

Part One: Antonio Salazar: The Smartest Fascist Dictator

Summary

This episode begins a deep dive into the life and rule of Antonio Salazar, the dictator who controlled Portugal from the 1930s to the 1970s. The hosts frame him as perhaps the most technically proficient dictator, comparing his longevity to Tom Brady’s career and contrasting his methodical, economic-focused approach with the more flamboyant, ideology-driven styles of Hitler and Mussolini.

The discussion covers Salazar’s humble origins in the village of Vimieiro, born to older, literate parents—a rarity among Portuguese peasants at the time. His mother’s entrepreneurial spirit, opening a tavern after a railway station brought commerce to their town, helped elevate the family’s status. Salazar was the babied youngest child and only son, showing an early bookish and solitary nature.

His path led him to a seminary, but his ambitions for the priesthood were derailed by romantic entanglements, including an inappropriate crush on a 16-year-old girl from a wealthy family that employed his father. This episode details his cringe-worthy attempt to woo her by publishing a fictionalized article about his love in a Catholic magazine, which her parents discovered. This pattern of relationships with women and girls, combined with his sharp economic mind, became a hallmark of his private life.

Salazar’s political awakening occurred during a period of extreme instability in Portugal, marked by the assassination of the king in 1908, a failed republic, and economic chaos. He was influenced by far-right French propagandist Charles Maurras and argued that democracy and the separation of church and state were calamities for stability. However, he was a cautious operator, initially focusing on his academic career as an economics professor and financial consultant, where he proved brilliant at making and investing money.

His big break came after a right-wing military coup in 1926 overthrew the republic. The generals, unable to manage the shattered economy, asked the “economic wizard” Salazar to take over the Ministry of Finance. He famously refused unless given a free hand, playing hard to get until they capitulated. Once in control, he quickly balanced the budget, stabilized the currency, and made himself indispensable. Through a series of calculated moves, he sidelined the military and, by 1933, had established the Estado Novo (New State), a corporatist, authoritarian regime with himself as the undisputed dictator.

Recommendations

Movies

  • Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai — Host Robert Evans and guest Jeff May bond over their love for this film, calling it ‘incredible’ and ‘a beautiful movie.’ They note it’s in the Criterion Collection and recommend it to fans of the show Andor.
  • Tombstone — Mentioned in a joking comparison to Salazar’s hometown getting a railway station. Val Kilmer’s performance as Doc Holliday is praised as ‘incredible.‘

Podcasts

  • Jeff Has Cool Friends — Jeff May’s podcast where he interviews interesting people from his life, ranging from celebrities to old friends.
  • Nerd — Another show by Jeff May on the same network as Jeff Has Cool Friends, co-hosted with Dre Alvarez.
  • The Monthly Flow — A monthly show Jeff May does with Andrea Gazzetta, available early and uncensored on Patreon.

Topic Timeline

  • 00:04:47 — Introducing Salazar: The Technically Proficient Dictator — The hosts introduce Antonio Salazar, dictator of Portugal from the 1930s to the 1970s, framing him as perhaps the most skilled at the ‘craft’ of dictatorship due to his longevity and economic focus. They debate whether to label him a fascist, noting he used fascist tools and allied with fascist powers but lacked the cult of personality and some ideological fervor. Comparisons are made to Hitler (a ‘bright burn’) and Tom Brady (longevity).
  • 00:09:49 — Salazar’s Humble Origins and Unusual Family — The episode details Salazar’s birth in 1889 in the village of Vimieiro to older, literate parents—a rarity among Portuguese peasants. His mother became a small business owner, capitalizing on a new railway station to open a tavern, which helped raise the family’s social standing. Salazar is described as the babied youngest child and only son, a quiet kid who spent time alone in the woods with his dog.
  • 00:22:26 — Leaving the Seminary and Early Romantic Entanglements — Salazar’s path to the priesthood is derailed, likely due to romantic relationships. He had a liaison with a girl named Filomena de Oliveira, which made him reconsider celibacy. Later, at age 23, he developed an inappropriate crush on 16-year-old Júlia Perestrelo, the daughter of his family’s wealthy benefactors. He attempted to woo her by publishing a thinly-veiled fictional article about his love for a wealthy girl in a Catholic magazine, which her parents discovered.
  • 00:26:08 — Political Awakening Amidst Portugal’s Chaos — Salazar leaves the seminary in 1908, the same year King Carlos I is assassinated in the ‘Lisbon Regicide.’ He becomes politically active, publishing a column arguing Catholics must get more political to save the country from radical republicanism. His thinking is influenced by far-right French propagandist Charles Maurras. He believes democracy cannot maintain order and separation of church and state is a calamity.
  • 00:36:32 — Academic Success and Economic Wizardry — Salazar attends the University of Coimbra as a law student, funded by tutoring the children of a wealthy family. He excels academically, becomes a popular lecturer and economics professor, and starts a lucrative financial consulting firm. He argues Portugal’s government is spending too much money and gains a reputation as a brilliant economic thinker, all while maintaining a carousel of female friends and lovers.
  • 00:54:02 — Post-WWI Instability and the Rise of the Right — Portugal’s involvement in World War I, which was unnecessary and costly, further destabilizes the republican government. Salazar’s popularity grows as he critiques the failing system. Right-wing, anti-republican movements like the Integralists gain traction. A failed monarchist coup occurs in 1919, the same year Salazar is suspended from his teaching job for spreading monarchist propaganda.
  • 01:04:02 — The 1926 Coup and Salazar’s Calculated Rise to Power — A right-wing military coup overthrows the republic in May 1926. The generals, unable to manage the economy, ask Salazar to be Finance Minister. He refuses unless given total control, playing hard to get. Eventually, they agree. He brilliantly balances the budget and stabilizes the currency within a year, making himself indispensable. He gradually demands and receives more power, sidelining the military.
  • 01:09:34 — Establishing the Estado Novo Dictatorship — By 1933, Salazar is in full control and proclaims the Estado Novo (New State). A new constitution is approved by a non-free plebiscite, creating a corporatist, one-party state. Salazar immediately cracks down on women’s rights, restricting their vote, work, and bodily autonomy. He also establishes a secret police force (PVDE) that uses torture, including the ‘statue’ method, though he prefers quiet brutality to avoid public backlash.

Episode Info

  • Podcast: Behind the Bastards
  • Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
  • Category: Society & Culture History News
  • Published: 2025-07-15T09:00:00Z
  • Duration: 01:12:31

References

Podcast Info

Transcript

[00:00:00] oh it’s behind the bastards a podcast that gets behind the bastards you know what this is you

[00:00:12] know what it means we talk about bad people the worst in all of history and today start this with

[00:00:17] a very tony soprano oh oh is that a tony soprano i never watched the sopranos here to be angry at

[00:00:24] me about that is both sophie lickerman lickerman my producer and jeff may haven’t you had matt

[00:00:29] lieb on this show and yet you still have not seen the sopranos what’s wrong with you that’s

[00:00:35] an act of aggression can you can you spend this weekend at least watching the pilot no i’m sorry

[00:00:41] i’m an italian american i was raised in the sopranos you know like i’ve got mobbed up family

[00:00:47] you need somewhere down the line all right all right you need so we had to change our last name

[00:00:52] you need to watch the sopranos this year that is your goal for the cursed year of 2025 i’m

[00:00:57] disgusted with you right now it’s okay i can

[00:00:59] use the italian slurs you can’t sophie i’m horrified by your behavior i can use those

[00:01:05] slurs too you can’t you absolutely i’m not italian but i know that you’re a but you were a boxer so

[00:01:10] it counts robert what the fuck yeah jeff how are you doing jeff may i’m good it’s been it’s been a

[00:01:21] while it’s been a while it’s been a while since i visited um the embargo is lifted which is nice

[00:01:27] yes thank you after those crimes and i am so

[00:01:29] sorry for saying all those really horrible things i don’t even know what i was thinking

[00:01:33] it’s okay it’s okay dei is over we can say those things oh finally the woke mob they came for jeff

[00:01:41] may um no jeff you’re one of our i mean you’re you’re my old friend from back in the day uh by

[00:01:48] which i mean the time when i worked at cracked uh and lived in los angeles and you’re also one of

[00:01:53] our favorite guests and this is this is fun you and i have both seen the movie ghost dog uh featuring

[00:01:59] magnificent forest whittaker uh american samurai himself yeah you know that’s in the

[00:02:04] criterion collection now it should be it’s great it should be it’s perfect it’s a beautiful movie

[00:02:09] i will say i have bonded over my love of ghost dog wave warrior with more than just you yeah it’s it’s

[00:02:17] an incredible film i’ve been bringing it up now that andor’s out and everybody’s talking about

[00:02:21] saga i’m like you guys need to motherfucking see ghost dog yeah like if you like that you need to

[00:02:26] see ghost dog yeah yeah you kind of do you

[00:02:29] should anyway you should anyway it’s in the criterion closet so you like mark hamill could

[00:02:34] grab it on an instagram reel or something you don’t know yeah yeah it’s perfect

[00:02:38] this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human when you feel uncomfortable what do you put on biggie

[00:02:49] you put on biggie when you feel uncomfortable because i want to get confident this is dj

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[00:03:06] therapy for your entire year listen to dj hester prince music is therapy on the iheart radio app

[00:03:12] apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this is rider strong and i have a new podcast

[00:03:17] called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune it was nature

[00:03:24] trees and praying and drugs so no i am not your

[00:03:29] back then i lied to everybody they have had this case for 30 years i’m going back to my hometown

[00:03:37] to uncover the truth listen to the red weather on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

[00:03:43] you get your podcasts hey everyone it’s emily simpson and shane simpson from the legally

[00:03:50] brunette podcast each week we’re bringing you true crime through a legal lens whether you want

[00:03:55] all the facts on the disappearance of nancy guthrie

[00:03:59] to wrap your head around the ditty verdict we’re breaking it all down step by step and we’re not

[00:04:05] just lawyers we’re also husband and wife it makes for some pretty entertaining episodes listen to

[00:04:10] legally brunette on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

[00:04:15] saturday may 2nd country’s biggest stars will be in austin texas at our 2026 iheart country

[00:04:22] festival presented by capital one c kane brown parker mccullum

[00:04:29] riley green shabuzy dylan scott russell dickerson gretchen wilson

[00:04:39] chase matthew lauren elena tickets are on sale now get yours before they sell out at ticketmaster.com

[00:04:47] so today we’re talking about a dictator who is unfortunately maybe the best at being a dictator

[00:04:57] on like a technical level right like if we’re giving

[00:04:59] awards on the actual like oh craft of dictatoring so like the the dictator oscars that they don’t

[00:05:06] show on television yeah yeah yeah the dictator oscars that don’t make because they’re kind of

[00:05:10] boring right yeah yeah it’s they did it like last night we had the dictator oscars yeah

[00:05:14] this is the dictator oscar for like yes set dressing or whatever it goes to antonio

[00:05:19] crazy here yeah yeah yeah great great audio editor we’re talking about have you did you

[00:05:26] know that portugal had a dictator at the same time that like germany

[00:05:29] and uh italy had dictators in spain i mean i have to say yes because of my history degree and all

[00:05:38] that but like you know i forget shit oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so antonio salazar was the dictator of

[00:05:44] portugal from like the 30s up to the 70s right so he is he has a very long run the short reign

[00:05:50] yeah yeah like twice he’s got he’s like two he’s like more than two he’s like three hitlers

[00:05:56] right three almost four hitlers oh look at this guy he’s like

[00:05:59] four hitlers he’s got like a he’s like a four hitler run yeah exactly i gotta be honest though

[00:06:04] he was did he did he put up hitler numbers that’s why he lasted yeah it’s like i guess hitler would

[00:06:11] be like the the bo jackson of dictators like it’s like it’s like a very very bright burn

[00:06:16] you don’t mind me saying such a terrible way to describe that no but then a fizzle out after he

[00:06:22] had that hip injury right and salazar has a hip injury in like 68 that takes him out uh you know

[00:06:28] salazar just gets lost in the middle of the night and he’s like oh my god i’m gonna die i’m gonna die

[00:06:29] he’s got the longevity but he’s in there a long time he’s like that guy who was with the the

[00:06:34] patriots fuck what’s his name everybody hates him um tom brady tom brady tom brady antonio salazar

[00:06:40] is the tom brady of dictators tom brady is single-handedly responsible for stopping a lot

[00:06:46] of domestic violence in new england so i’m gonna actually say you know if you really think about it

[00:06:53] um it’s a garbage fan base full of terrible people yeah it is it is the patriots the worst

[00:06:59] we were like i don’t know about okay we love this guy he’s keeping things safe yeah um yeah i’m not

[00:07:06] gonna say that about antonio salazar but he does have the staying power right and he’s one of these

[00:07:10] guys he gets called a fascist a lot and there’s an argument to be made for that he gets called a

[00:07:16] fascist generally because you know he comes up around the same time hitler does around the same

[00:07:21] time franco does a little bit after mussolini and they’re all kind of simpatico for a while so

[00:07:26] there’s this this argument that like well salazar was a fascist and he was a fascist and he was a

[00:07:29] fascist dictator as well and you can kind of debate that uh but you know i think if we want

[00:07:36] to put it in like beatles terms right hitler’s the john lennon of fascism and mussolini’s the

[00:07:41] george harrison and you know they kind of clock out first uh which leaves franco as the ringo and

[00:07:47] i i think we’ve got to say that maybe salazar is the paul mccartney fascism i don’t know i mean

[00:07:52] that’s that’s pretty good also europe was a vibe huh yeah yeah they were not doing well right after

[00:07:59] world war they were certainly going for it you know i gotta you gotta hand it to these guys they

[00:08:04] took big swings yeah you know like well we’re in our big swing period today and we didn’t even have

[00:08:10] a world war one over it right so who are we to judge um we can judge a little i mean to be fair

[00:08:16] we’ve had uh we’ve had we’ve had a few we’ve had a couple yeah we’ve we’ve taken our swings this

[00:08:20] isn’t our first set so as we’ll discuss you know there’s a lot of debate as to whether or not you

[00:08:25] should call salazar a fascist he certainly uses a lot of fascism tools like there’s a lot of

[00:08:29] aspects of it that he utilized and he has good relationships with all of the fascist powers

[00:08:34] during his days he’s going to intervene to help franco win his civil war in spain

[00:08:38] but ideologically he’s not someone who’s like super on board especially with all the weird

[00:08:44] hitler stuff like he’s not a cult of personality guy he’s not a big ideology of fascism guy like

[00:08:50] he thinks that stuff’s kind of weird and he’s above all like an economics professor and a

[00:08:55] catholic conservative who’s just kind of like i’m the only guy smart enough to run the world

[00:08:59] in portugal and i’ll torture as many people as i have to do in order to keep the economy running

[00:09:04] right like he has a balance the budget no matter who has to die kind of motherfucker i guess it

[00:09:09] really depends on like if fascism is decided on at the start of the journey yeah or just summed up

[00:09:16] at the end of the journey right like yeah i’m not doing a fascism and then at the end you’re like

[00:09:21] kind of seems like you might have been yeah with him it would be i think it looks at the start a

[00:09:27] lot like a fascism and then at the end it’s like well you were

[00:09:29] just kind of a garden variety dictator like maybe but you never did any of the weird cult of

[00:09:34] personality shit like you were never like that kind of stuff was sort of absent but we’ll we’ll

[00:09:40] talk about it at the end we could kind of say where do we want to where do we want to land on

[00:09:43] this motherfucker on the fash scale yeah on the fash scale but either way he sucked right we’re

[00:09:49] not debating that part of it um so antonio de olivera salazar was born on april 28th 1889 in

[00:09:57] a small house in the village of

[00:09:59] muro uh his parents were kind of odd ducks for their era his father antonio married his mom in

[00:10:05] 1881 when they were 40 and 35 and this is a lot older than people tend to it’s older that it’s

[00:10:12] like pretty old for getting married now like back in the 1880s the average lifespan in portugal

[00:10:18] for men is 46.5 years right now that doesn’t mean people died at 47 but it means that you know

[00:10:26] infant mortality was so high that those averages are low a lot and

[00:10:29] this is still pretty weird for you to wait this long to get married and it’s also it’s hard to

[00:10:34] conceive right when you’re when you both parties are over 35 years old it’s relatively difficult

[00:10:40] especially with 1880s you know obstetrics technology the other thing that makes his mom

[00:10:45] and dad weird is that they can read which is not normal for portuguese peasants uh we’re modern

[00:10:51] americans if you’re modern americans yes thanks to chat gpt um yeah right sorry how we ruined

[00:10:57] education yeah can we just talk a little bit about that because i think that’s a really good question

[00:10:59] can we just talk a little bit about that because i think that’s a really good question

[00:10:59] say that the least surprising piece of news just dropped and that people that use chat gpt are

[00:11:04] morons right right right that it breaks their brains that it’s like atrophying you because

[00:11:08] you’re not thinking about how to put words together bad for you that story this week

[00:11:13] about the guy that proposed to his ai girlfriend and then cried when she said yes and then it

[00:11:19] breaks out that he’s got like his he’s got a wife human partner i don’t think they’re married but

[00:11:24] they have a kid together they have a child i just yeah oh fuck

[00:11:29] so that’s not salazar’s parents yeah we’re cooked yeah all the other portuguese peasants are using

[00:11:35] 1880s chat gpt which i guess is just being too busy to learn how to read but his mom and dad

[00:11:40] know how to read um now everyone else in their village most of the people living in this village

[00:11:45] who are because these are again like all peasants even though it’s the 1880s outside of a couple of

[00:11:51] maybe aspects of modernity that have crept in most of the people in these villages are living

[00:11:55] lives that like if you go back three or four hundred years there’s a there’s more in common

[00:11:59] than there is different right which we can’t say about nobody even like the poorest rural people

[00:12:04] in the u.s today do not live lives that are similar to rural americans in the 1700s in a lot

[00:12:09] of ways um but that is kind of the case in portugal in this period a lot more so than it’s going to be

[00:12:15] in any later period um his village uh does have kind of one thing going for it which is that

[00:12:20] vimiro when he is kind of like a little kid is chosen to be the site of a railway station right

[00:12:26] which is going to ensure that while a lot of small rural

[00:12:29] towns kind of die out as modernity comes to portugal vimiro is going to continue to be

[00:12:34] like relevant you know because there’s there’s this connection to the rest of the world it’s

[00:12:39] going to become the tombstone yeah it’s it’s a tombstone a portugal type situation right it’s

[00:12:43] going to be dressed like undertakers with big black mustaches and stuff it’s gonna be all right

[00:12:47] that’s right and yeah uh doc holiday is going to show up with fucking uh uh consumption it’s

[00:12:53] going to be incredible val kilmer oh my god oh my god so good yeah yeah especially if you’ve

[00:12:57] seen that movie val he’s filmed as he was

[00:12:59] dying incredible stuff um great movie so uh his mom is kind of the val kilmer of vimiro and uh like

[00:13:07] val kilmer she’s a small business owner i don’t actually know if that’s true of val but it’s true

[00:13:11] of his mom she was rolling yeah she’s she’s she’s doing great um she’s going to become an entrepreneur

[00:13:17] she’s going to open like a tavern in this town with like some rooms to rent and that’s going to

[00:13:22] help the family rise up to what’s effectively the portuguese middle class while antonio salazar is

[00:13:27] like a kid to an adolescent

[00:13:29] right his family is going from we’re kind of near the bottom rung to we’re actually doing pretty well

[00:13:34] because there’s this railway station picked for our town and my mom knows how to capitalize on it

[00:13:39] right um his mom gets the money to start this business because his dad also does okay for

[00:13:44] himself he’s an estate manager which means you’ve got these rich families who have like generational

[00:13:49] wealth because their ancestors 400 years ago plundered the new world and they have big estates

[00:13:55] but they don’t they’re not going to take they don’t want to garden they don’t want to farm they

[00:13:59] don’t want to live with them so they hire a guy like antonio our antonio’s dad uh to take care of

[00:14:05] the properties while they’re away being rich hanging out in their other houses in lisbon or

[00:14:09] whatever you know hell yeah man capitalist feudalism right right that’s kind of what’s

[00:14:14] going on here and that’s the world his parents inhabit and that’s the world antonio kind of comes

[00:14:18] up in portugal is not a healthy country as salazar is growing up right if you remember the early

[00:14:26] period of colonialism right after columbus you know quote unquote

[00:14:29] discovers the new world the two powers that are first like really expanding around the world and

[00:14:35] taking a lot of colonies and taking advantage of you know europe beginning this colonialization

[00:14:40] process are spain and portugal and portugal is for a couple hundred years a major world power

[00:14:46] they have colonies all over the planet because they’re just very early successful in the age of

[00:14:51] sail and they rapidly take a lot of colonies which is you know portugal is not a big country

[00:14:56] so in very short order their colonial possessions are dozens of times

[00:14:59] the size of the actual country itself um and this does pretty well for them for a while but

[00:15:07] like spain they kind of also burn out quickly right like as the british empire is starting

[00:15:12] to really pick up steam as king shit portugal’s kind of the sick man of colonialism or at least

[00:15:18] portugal and spain are both kind of the sick men of colonialism it’s actually really funny because

[00:15:22] uh one of the three dates that i told my students they would have to know was 1492 and it’s i’m like

[00:15:29] what is this boss is because one of the reasons that they really flopped super hard was they

[00:15:34] basically were like we’re gonna make a christos state basically like an entirely and they kicked

[00:15:39] out all the all the jews and the muslims oh yeah yeah and so that basically means they kicked out

[00:15:44] their most educated and wealthy members of their society and we’re just like we’ll do it normally

[00:15:49] yeah we’ll figure it out you kicked out the banks and the universities basically and so they just

[00:15:55] started crumbling and they started building and then they were just they couldn’t keep going so

[00:15:59] it’s very funny yeah and there’s a lot to say about like taking all of these you know suddenly

[00:16:03] flooding their market with precious metals too and like what that does with the value of these

[00:16:07] things like there’s a lot that goes on but portugal is like not a wildly dissimilar story

[00:16:12] and that kind of by the time the 17 1800s are creeping around things are starting to like look

[00:16:17] kind of shitty even though they still have massive overseas possessions which they’re going to

[00:16:22] maintain until the middle late middle of last century um so the fact that they’ve got all these

[00:16:27] colonial territories portugal is going to be a big problem for them because they’re going to

[00:16:29] come in handy when napoleon invades in 1807 and the royal family of portugal has to flee to brazil

[00:16:36] which declares its independence not long after this fact um so that’s no longer going to be a

[00:16:41] case for portugal you know kind of after this period as is often the case with royal families

[00:16:47] portugal’s royal family not good at ruling uh the catholic church which held tremendous power

[00:16:52] coveted its position as the sole provider of social services and the cultural power that

[00:16:59] you get a lot of similar things with like basically carlists like people who believe in

[00:17:03] the catholic church is the sole like legitimate sort of you know authority um you know pushing

[00:17:09] against these kind of republican ideals in the 1800s 1900s as modernity comes in i mean

[00:17:15] it’s it is funny how much plague beat the shit out of the church oh yeah after people came out

[00:17:22] they’re like these guys weren’t doing shit yeah but oh wow turns out they were wrong about a lot

[00:17:27] turns out the the pope and in

[00:17:29] france yeah surrounded himself in a wall of fire that doesn’t seem good we do that i’ve done that

[00:17:36] before it’s not the worst thing to do but yeah i mean it’s cool it’s cool it looks great it is cool

[00:17:41] yeah um also check out the movie the new paul verhoeven movie uh uh bernadotta or something

[00:17:48] like that it’s about this uh this nun in italy during the plague years fucking wild shit she

[00:17:53] becomes a robot cop yeah exactly it is cool classic paul verhoeven movie so

[00:17:59] result very little changes in portugal and almost nothing gets better until the king is ousted during

[00:18:04] a civil war in the 1830s this is not going to last super long but for a period of time there’s

[00:18:10] this like liberal kind of party backed by great britain and they win and they see some property

[00:18:15] in the church from the church and from the nobility but they also don’t do much to fix

[00:18:20] the larger issues the country has and most portuguese people still can’t read the country

[00:18:25] is bent over under the weight of these titanic debts that have been accrued from generations of

[00:18:29] overspending and the country kind of continues to hobble along monarchists are able to get like a

[00:18:35] weak king you know in there and they quarrel with republicans who are trying to support like a new

[00:18:40] electoral system that also isn’t very sturdy and it’s into this kind of fucked up and failing

[00:18:46] nation that salazar grows up right so this is also what’s happening is he’s watching both

[00:18:51] this increasingly like sclerotic and ineffective like royal family fail to hold power and he’s

[00:18:59] gasps of republicanism that aren’t really fixing things either and we’ve never seen this in the

[00:19:05] background of right dictator yeah this never seen them grow up in a failing place and learn how to

[00:19:11] how to play certain right chords in order to get what they want yeah no never before but yeah

[00:19:18] nothing’s working for him um except for he sees his parents like succeeding right because they’re

[00:19:23] unusually educated and ambitious and they want more for their kids his older sister marta becomes

[00:19:28] a school teacher

[00:19:29] his parents seem to have been the normal amount of strict for their era uh but a biographer tom

[00:19:34] gallagher notes that as the youngest child and only boy antonio salazar was babied and quote

[00:19:40] received none of the punishments that his mother occasionally meted out right so he’s kind of by

[00:19:46] the time he comes along his sisters have sort of gotten all of the spankings right not not an

[00:19:51] uncommon youngest kid story where yeah my parents were way bigger dicks when i was a kid what

[00:19:56] happened um what you need though is you need to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to

[00:19:59] be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to you need that gap you need a bigger gap between the siblings the top sibling and the and the young the oldest right because if it’s too close you just get the beatings any yeah you just get the beatings but if it’s long enough your parents are tired their arms don’t work as well especially when they’re as old as antonio’s my brother and i were two years apart so he would beat me and then i would i would get something there you go there you go but then like i know people my little brother’s 15 years younger than me it’s like well that kid’s not getting hit yeah you’re not gonna hit your 15 years yet then it’s then you’re just beating a child

[00:20:29] Right?

[00:20:31] Oh, we’re all perfect?

[00:20:32] Yeah, as opposed to kids beating each other the way God intended.

[00:20:35] Yeah.

[00:20:37] So he’s the favorite of the family, not just of his parents, but of his sisters, too.

[00:20:42] His mom’s going to become obsessed with setting him up for success.

[00:20:45] For his part, Antonio never seems to have sought the limelight.

[00:20:49] He is a quiet kid.

[00:20:51] Gallagher’s biographer posits that he was kind of overwhelmed by his mother’s personality,

[00:20:56] but also kind of in awe of her capabilities because she’s just this very competent woman.

[00:21:01] She’s, you know, raising her kids.

[00:21:03] She’s helping to farm, you know, because they have to grow food for their own survival.

[00:21:07] And she’s a small business owner, right?

[00:21:09] And it’s kind of single-handedly raising the family’s position in society.

[00:21:12] While he’s not helping her at the family business or helping in the fields,

[00:21:17] young Antonio spends his time alone with his dog in the woods.

[00:21:21] He wouldn’t have had a lot of free time by our standards,

[00:21:24] and much of his learning had to be selfless.

[00:21:26] Self-directed, right?

[00:21:27] Because the Portuguese education system is not good.

[00:21:30] His parents kind of help him learn to read,

[00:21:32] and then he’s on his own for a lot of his early education outside of that.

[00:21:37] By the time he’s 10, his mother had convinced his father

[00:21:40] that he’s not getting enough attention or challenge in what education he is receiving.

[00:21:45] So he is enrolled in a seminary in the north of the country, right?

[00:21:49] And this is the normal story.

[00:21:50] If you grow up in a very Catholic place in this time,

[00:21:53] and you’re a really smart kid,

[00:21:55] but your family,

[00:21:56] your family’s poor,

[00:21:56] basically your only option is we’ll enroll you in seminary,

[00:22:00] and they will teach you stuff on the expectation that you’ll become a priest, right?

[00:22:05] Which is like half the time they were like,

[00:22:07] psych!

[00:22:07] Yeah, I’m not doing that.

[00:22:09] No, thank you.

[00:22:10] I’m just kidding.

[00:22:10] And then there’s like nine monks left that they’re like,

[00:22:13] I guess I’ll write all the books then.

[00:22:15] Yeah, I guess I’ll be the one who keeps remembering how to read for this town.

[00:22:19] Time to illuminate some more fucking manuscripts, I guess.

[00:22:21] Yeah, great.

[00:22:22] I’m not tired of that at all.

[00:22:24] So he is,

[00:22:26] as you stated,

[00:22:26] it’s one of those things where he’s technically training to be a priest,

[00:22:29] but you don’t have to.

[00:22:30] You’re not like locked in.

[00:22:32] And Salazar,

[00:22:33] he’s a good little Catholic boy.

[00:22:34] And he initially seems to have adopted this as an ambition for himself,

[00:22:38] where he’s like,

[00:22:39] well, yeah,

[00:22:39] I guess being a priest is the thing I’m going to do.

[00:22:43] That’s not going to last super long.

[00:22:45] And he’s going to stop wanting to be a priest.

[00:22:48] Probably.

[00:22:49] We don’t know this perfectly,

[00:22:50] but the likeliest reason why he stops wanting to be a priest is the normal reason young boys stop wanting.

[00:22:56] To become priests started J and O.

[00:22:58] He starts fucking right.

[00:22:59] He starts fucking,

[00:23:00] you know,

[00:23:01] he’s like,

[00:23:01] oh,

[00:23:01] you know what?

[00:23:02] Being a priest might suck ass.

[00:23:04] Actually,

[00:23:05] heaven sounds cool,

[00:23:06] but is it good at busting a nut?

[00:23:07] It is.

[00:23:08] It is cool.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Cool is getting laid.

[00:23:10] Absolutely not.

[00:23:11] I can give myself heaven whenever I want.

[00:23:13] Right,

[00:23:14] right,

[00:23:14] right.

[00:23:14] As long as I’m able to,

[00:23:15] yeah,

[00:23:15] we have heaven at home.

[00:23:17] We,

[00:23:17] yeah,

[00:23:17] we’ve got heaven at home,

[00:23:18] um,

[00:23:18] or at least in my next door neighbor’s house.

[00:23:21] Um,

[00:23:22] so he meets a girl.

[00:23:23] He actually meets several girls.

[00:23:25] His first is,

[00:23:26] you know,

[00:23:26] she’s 16.

[00:23:27] So is he,

[00:23:28] and she’ll remain a Maria de Figueiredo.

[00:23:31] She’ll remain a friend and a political advisor for the rest of their lives,

[00:23:34] right?

[00:23:34] This kind of first girl that he,

[00:23:35] he hits it off with is going to be,

[00:23:38] she’ll be influential politically in Portugal while he’s the ruler.

[00:23:41] Cause she’ll send him letters about like how this is,

[00:23:43] how this is working.

[00:23:44] So this is working and he’ll kind of continue to trust her.

[00:23:47] Um,

[00:23:48] the second girl he falls for is Phyllis Mina,

[00:23:51] uh,

[00:23:51] the Olivera,

[00:23:52] and she’s two years older than him,

[00:23:53] right?

[00:23:54] The two meet at a railway station.

[00:23:56] And according to some accounts begin a love affair.

[00:23:58] That is what primarily derail Salazar’s ambitions of priesthood.

[00:24:03] There’s some dispute in this Tom Gallagher argues that Salazar kind of keeps true to his vows for a while,

[00:24:09] and then gives up the seminary later for another reason.

[00:24:12] But there are other arguments that I find really credible that it’s probably a liaison with this girl,

[00:24:17] even though it takes a while that makes young Antonia realize,

[00:24:19] oh fuck,

[00:24:20] I’m not going to take a vow of celibacy.

[00:24:22] Um,

[00:24:23] Peter Booker,

[00:24:23] who’s co-founder of the Algarve history,

[00:24:26] association writes an article about Salazar’s alleged romantic history for Portugal resident.

[00:24:31] And he noted Salazar was studying to be a priest at the time and attended the seminary,

[00:24:35] but that fact did not prevent him from beginning a love affair.

[00:24:37] She was a friend of Marta,

[00:24:38] one of Salazar sisters.

[00:24:39] And during the young holidays,

[00:24:41] Phyllis Mina would say at the Salazar family home,

[00:24:43] they exchanged in numeral letters.

[00:24:45] Phyllis Mina began to have problems of conscience regarding her relationship with Salazar.

[00:24:49] She was a devout Catholic and did not want him to renounce the priesthood because of her little did she know that not only was Salazar already thinking about her,

[00:24:54] she was a devout Catholic and did not want him to renounce the priesthood because of her little did she know that not only was Salazar already thinking about her,

[00:24:55] she was a devout Catholic and did not want him to renounce the priesthood because of her little did she know that not only was Salazar already thinking about her,

[00:24:56] abandoning his career,

[00:24:57] but he was also about to dump her.

[00:24:59] And this seems kind of plausible,

[00:25:01] right?

[00:25:02] It’s not just this girl,

[00:25:03] but it’s in general,

[00:25:04] he’s starting to get laid and he’s like,

[00:25:06] I don’t need to stay with this lady,

[00:25:07] but also the priesthood is clearly not for me.

[00:25:10] Cause I kind of like fooling around.

[00:25:12] Right?

[00:25:12] Okay.

[00:25:12] So we are sort of avoiding the 500 pound gorilla in the room,

[00:25:17] which is that those vows have never mattered.

[00:25:20] I’m Catholic clergy.

[00:25:22] If you want to know how many popes had illegitimate children.

[00:25:25] Oh man.

[00:25:25] It’s nearly all of them.

[00:25:27] Oh,

[00:25:27] you can get up to Pope and still be fucking.

[00:25:30] Oh yeah.

[00:25:30] Oh yeah.

[00:25:31] So the norm is for popes to get laid,

[00:25:33] which is part of the problem,

[00:25:35] right?

[00:25:36] One of many,

[00:25:37] but yeah,

[00:25:38] it’s,

[00:25:39] it’s that,

[00:25:40] that’s kind of what’s happening with him,

[00:25:41] but he’s also like,

[00:25:43] it’s very important to note that this is the church and this is the steeple.

[00:25:46] Right.

[00:25:47] Open it up and fuck all the people.

[00:25:48] Right.

[00:25:49] That’s kind of where Salazar is going to take it.

[00:25:51] Except for like,

[00:25:51] I don’t even need the church.

[00:25:53] I don’t need the steeple.

[00:25:54] I’ve just got to fuck.

[00:25:55] I’m just going to fuck.

[00:25:55] Fucking all the people.

[00:25:56] I’m just going to fucking become an economist.

[00:25:59] So he’s a bookish Catholic boy.

[00:26:01] And he like,

[00:26:02] yeah,

[00:26:02] he starts figuring out like,

[00:26:04] this is not the future for me.

[00:26:05] So he leaves the seminary in 1908.

[00:26:08] This is a big year for Portugal.

[00:26:11] It’s the same year King Carlos and the crown friends,

[00:26:13] Louis Philippe are assassinated while they drive through Lisbon in an open coach.

[00:26:18] So this is like a daring,

[00:26:19] it’s called the Lisbon regicide.

[00:26:21] And it’s a very famous like moment in the early 20th,

[00:26:25] century.

[00:26:26] There’s a lot going on behind this assassination.

[00:26:29] It gets blamed by some people,

[00:26:30] Tom Gallagher,

[00:26:31] who’s kind of a more conservative guy,

[00:26:33] this biographer whose book I read on Salazar blames it on anarchists.

[00:26:38] Much as I’d like to take credit or anarchists take credit for killing a King.

[00:26:43] That’s not really what’s happening here.

[00:26:44] These guys are like radical Republicans.

[00:26:47] Right.

[00:26:48] But I don’t mean in the modern term,

[00:26:49] I mean like people who support a Republic concept of a public.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:53] Yeah.

[00:26:53] Like,

[00:26:53] I think we,

[00:26:54] I mean,

[00:26:55] I know we conflate them,

[00:26:56] but the difference between Republicans and Democrats and then liberal and conservative,

[00:26:59] like it all depends on labeling.

[00:27:02] Right.

[00:27:02] And these guys are like radical.

[00:27:04] Like we want to be able to vote and fuck having a Royal family,

[00:27:07] right?

[00:27:07] That’s the kind of radicals they are,

[00:27:09] as opposed to like being radical in favor of the abolition of the state,

[00:27:13] which is more of an anarchist thing.

[00:27:14] That’s not really what’s going on with these guys.

[00:27:17] Um,

[00:27:18] there’s a lot else that’s happening behind this regicide,

[00:27:21] right.

[00:27:21] That kind of helps inspire it.

[00:27:22] Uh,

[00:27:22] the Portuguese government has just conducted,

[00:27:25] negotiations with great Britain over the extent of Portugal’s African territory.

[00:27:29] And Portugal makes a lot of compromises and how much of Africa they’re going to continue to hold.

[00:27:34] And this is seen as disastrous by many nationalists.

[00:27:37] And there’s a lot of Republican nationalists who are like,

[00:27:39] well,

[00:27:39] the crown just gave up a lot of our overseas empire.

[00:27:43] Um,

[00:27:43] another thing that’s going on in the background is that as is often the case with Portugal,

[00:27:48] they’re terrified that Spain is going to invade,

[00:27:50] right?

[00:27:51] Because if you look at a map,

[00:27:52] Spain is a lot of Iberia.

[00:27:55] And Portugal is pretty small.

[00:27:57] So how did they avoid unification in that in the late 1400s?

[00:28:01] It’s Granada,

[00:28:02] Nevada,

[00:28:03] Castile and Aragon.

[00:28:04] I mean,

[00:28:04] Aragon and Castile were obviously the marriage,

[00:28:07] but then they sucked in Nevada and Granada.

[00:28:10] Just go get Portugal,

[00:28:11] man.

[00:28:12] There’s a period of time where they are occupied by Spain,

[00:28:15] right?

[00:28:16] But there’s also like reasons of natural defensiveness and just like the power of the Portuguese state in that period that Portugal,

[00:28:22] but Portugal doesn’t,

[00:28:24] you know,

[00:28:24] wind up,

[00:28:24] obviously unified,

[00:28:26] but that is constantly a fear going on in the background.

[00:28:29] And it’s one of those things.

[00:28:30] It’s not really a thing in modern Portuguese politics,

[00:28:32] I don’t think,

[00:28:33] but it’s like a huge factor in everybody’s thinking right now is that like Spain is right next to us and they’re much bigger and they were

[00:28:40] gobbling shit up and they’re gobbling shit up.

[00:28:42] And there’s this broader fear that like Portugal,

[00:28:45] we used to be great and we’re being sidelined by greater powers because we’ve kind of slid into citizens,

[00:28:51] right?

[00:28:51] We’re old and we’re tired and we don’t have the juice.

[00:28:54] We used to have.

[00:28:54] And we’re going to get eaten up entirely if we’re not careful,

[00:28:57] right?

[00:28:58] Like that’s a major political factor in everything that’s going on here.

[00:29:02] Anyway,

[00:29:03] you know what else is a major political factor?

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[00:29:07] Segregation in the day,

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[00:30:09] Segregation in the day,

[00:30:11] integration at night.

[00:30:14] When segregation was the law,

[00:30:16] one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[00:30:19] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:30:21] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:30:24] Inside Charlie’s Place,

[00:30:26] black and white people danced together,

[00:30:28] but not everyone was happy about it.

[00:30:31] You saw the KKK?

[00:30:33] Yeah.

[00:30:34] They was dressed up in their uniform.

[00:30:36] The KKK set out to raid Charlie,

[00:30:39] take him away from here.

[00:30:41] Charlie was an example of power.

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[00:31:02] Apple Podcasts,

[00:31:03] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:31:09] This is Rider Strong with a podcast called The Red Weather.

[00:31:12] In 1995, my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune.

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[00:32:42] And we’re back.

[00:32:45] So,

[00:32:46] the Republican movement is starting to pick up steam

[00:32:49] in Portugal kind of in the period

[00:32:51] when the king was assassinated.

[00:32:52] Because of the railways.

[00:32:53] Yeah, because of the railways.

[00:32:54] There’s steam now.

[00:32:55] The king gets kind of politically active in politics,

[00:32:58] which makes things even more chaotic and inefficient

[00:33:01] because it’s like, it’s not great.

[00:33:02] He’s not good at it.

[00:33:03] The king’s not really good at much.

[00:33:05] And the king who gets assassinated

[00:33:07] has appointed this guy to act as his minister

[00:33:09] who’s widely seen as like a dictatorial figure.

[00:33:12] And eventually, two Republicans with rifles decide like,

[00:33:15] enough of this bullshit.

[00:33:17] We’re going to take matters into our own hands.

[00:33:19] And yeah, these guys are kind of radical Republicans.

[00:33:23] And one of them has some history of anarchist sympathy.

[00:33:27] He’s part of an anarcho-syndicalist organization in his youth.

[00:33:30] But they’re militant like Republican activists with rifles.

[00:33:34] One of them’s in the army.

[00:33:35] And yeah, they shoot and kill the king and his heir.

[00:33:39] And the Lisbon regicide becomes kind of a seminal moment

[00:33:42] for right-wing politics in Portugal.

[00:33:44] Salazar, who’s a young man at this point,

[00:33:46] he’s leaving the seminary this year.

[00:33:48] He’s livid when he finds out what’s happened.

[00:33:50] Now, he is starting to get political at this point.

[00:33:53] He’s been elected the president of his student body association.

[00:33:56] And in the spring of 1908, he publishes a column

[00:33:59] attacking his fellow Catholics

[00:34:01] because they’ve become so politically separated

[00:34:03] from the shocking violence in the capital.

[00:34:05] That like, we Catholics need to get more political

[00:34:08] in order to save our country from, you know,

[00:34:11] this sort of radical Republican sentiment

[00:34:13] that’s going to destroy, like, force us into anarchy.

[00:34:17] Salazar’s thinking here is probably influenced

[00:34:20] by the writing of a far-right propagandist from France

[00:34:23] named Charles Morris, who wrote for France’s most popular

[00:34:26] proto-fascist newspaper Action Francaise.

[00:34:29] Salazar’s argument is that democracy cannot maintain order

[00:34:33] and separation of church and state is a calamity

[00:34:35] for stability and public order, right?

[00:34:37] Which is very much like taken from Morris’s,

[00:34:40] the stuff that Morris is writing in France at the time.

[00:34:42] I would like to also add that Action Francaise

[00:34:44] is my favorite rapper.

[00:34:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:34:48] Yeah, probably politically different

[00:34:50] than the original newspaper.

[00:34:52] These are the guys, like Action Francaise and Morris,

[00:34:54] are going to have a big role in, like,

[00:34:56] the far-right French coup attempt that’s going to happen

[00:34:58] kind of right before World War II.

[00:35:00] Like, they’re kind of a major inciting factor to it.

[00:35:02] And these are the guys that Salazar.

[00:35:04] So that’s part, one of the reasons why people are like,

[00:35:06] eh, is this guy fascist?

[00:35:07] It’s like, he’s definitely very influenced

[00:35:09] by some proto-fascist thinkers.

[00:35:11] Could you imagine de Gaulle of trying to run France?

[00:35:15] Oh, my God.

[00:35:16] Could you imagine?

[00:35:17] Yeah, I mean, yeah, in the post-war period,

[00:35:19] sure, it doesn’t go great.

[00:35:21] Could you imagine de Gaulle?

[00:35:23] It’s just, we got, we like that.

[00:35:26] It’s a history pun.

[00:35:27] Yeah, it’s a good history pun.

[00:35:29] It’s also just his last name.

[00:35:30] I’m sorry.

[00:35:31] Hey, I’m going to go.

[00:35:32] I’m sorry about that, guys.

[00:35:34] I’m going to take off.

[00:35:35] It’s okay.

[00:35:37] We can forgive, like, one French pun.

[00:35:39] But that’s all.

[00:35:41] No more.

[00:35:42] So Salazar, he starts making some stabs at politics, right?

[00:35:47] You know, kind of in this post-Regicide period,

[00:35:49] but he’s not fully committed to it.

[00:35:51] Part of this is that the wind is kind of blowing

[00:35:53] against the right wing.

[00:35:54] You know, after that king gets assassinated,

[00:35:56] the sort of left is looking like they’ve got

[00:35:59] the wind behind their sails.

[00:36:01] So he’s like, I don’t want to commit.

[00:36:02] It’s a pretty big move.

[00:36:03] It’s a pretty big move, shooting the king and his son.

[00:36:06] Quite literally, a coup.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:09] Try it.

[00:36:10] In your own monarchy.

[00:36:12] What a triumph.

[00:36:13] Yeah.

[00:36:14] You know?

[00:36:15] A rifle, a couple of small pieces of lead gets you to the game.

[00:36:18] Yeah.

[00:36:19] Gets you right in.

[00:36:20] Really changes the ground.

[00:36:22] So he’s like, I don’t feel like this is a safe time

[00:36:25] to be, like, a far-right Catholic activist.

[00:36:28] So I’m just going to take a teaching job and, like,

[00:36:30] lecture talking about the economy.

[00:36:32] He graduates from a secondary education in 1910.

[00:36:36] He opts to leave the church.

[00:36:38] And, you know,

[00:36:39] one of the practical reasons behind this is that the church

[00:36:42] is kind of losing power.

[00:36:44] So Salazar winds up attending the prestigious University of Coimbra

[00:36:47] as a law student in October of 1910,

[00:36:50] thanks to the financial support of a family that his dad works for.

[00:36:53] This is like the family his dad is, you know,

[00:36:56] taking care of their grounds.

[00:36:58] And Salazar tutors, like, the mistress of this wealthy family.

[00:37:02] Like, he tutors her kids in exchange for financial support.

[00:37:05] So he teaches her kids to be less stupid.

[00:37:08] And they pay for him to go to this fancy college,

[00:37:11] this university, which is going to really change his life.

[00:37:15] It’s going to give him an opportunity to become someone in politics.

[00:37:19] And this change in his life, where he starts going to the school

[00:37:22] and his options start to open up,

[00:37:24] accompanies another dramatic change in Portuguese government

[00:37:27] because the Republicans revolt,

[00:37:29] and they force the monarchy entirely out of the country, right?

[00:37:32] They killed the king and his heir.

[00:37:34] But, you know, you’ve still got kind of a weak monarchy in there.

[00:37:36] And then there’s a revolt,

[00:37:37] a little while later,

[00:37:39] and now Portugal is just a straight-up republic for a little while, right?

[00:37:44] Salazar bides his time as the republic tries to consolidate his power,

[00:37:48] and he works towards an advanced degree.

[00:37:50] He gets into academic tutoring as a side business,

[00:37:53] and it proves to be very lucrative.

[00:37:55] Like, he’s teaching a lot of kids,

[00:37:57] he’s making good money, and he’s investing it.

[00:37:59] And he proves to be very good investing money, right?

[00:38:02] He’s just one of these guys that understands how to turn a dollar

[00:38:05] into a couple of dollars,

[00:38:06] and then a couple of more dollars,

[00:38:08] and so on and so forth.

[00:38:09] I’m always weirdly jealous of those people.

[00:38:12] Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:13] That they’re just really good at making money.

[00:38:16] Yeah.

[00:38:17] And also I’m just like,

[00:38:18] yeah, but that must be like a…

[00:38:19] If you care about money, that must be miserable.

[00:38:22] Yeah, I mean, and he’s not like a super happy person,

[00:38:25] it doesn’t seem.

[00:38:26] Like, he doesn’t have,

[00:38:27] outside of like constantly sleeping around

[00:38:29] and investing his money and writing economic treatises,

[00:38:33] that’s pretty much his whole life at this point,

[00:38:35] being really angry that the Catholic Church isn’t more powerful.

[00:38:38] Those are his hobbies, right?

[00:38:40] I mean, some of those hobbies are cool.

[00:38:42] Yeah, one of those hobbies is cool, I guess.

[00:38:44] One of those hobbies is just cool, man.

[00:38:46] Yeah, the other hobby’s kind of lame.

[00:38:48] Yeah, then dudes rock, and then sometimes dudes do not rock.

[00:38:52] Yeah, and he’s more on the dudes not rocking side of things.

[00:38:55] But he does accept for a while that like,

[00:38:57] I can’t fight democracy right now,

[00:38:59] and the monarchy’s too weak,

[00:39:01] so it’s not really worth me fighting for.

[00:39:03] So he kind of pivots.

[00:39:04] And he starts, you know,

[00:39:06] coming up with his own theories about how to reform things.

[00:39:09] His attitude is that the Republic is going to fail.

[00:39:12] And so he’s trying to figure out like,

[00:39:13] what system should replace it?

[00:39:15] And he does a lot of reading on the encyclicals of Pope Leo VIII,

[00:39:19] who had encouraged Catholic organization and power

[00:39:22] under a democratic system, right?

[00:39:23] Which Leo VIII had been like,

[00:39:25] hey, democracy, probably here to stay.

[00:39:28] We shouldn’t fight to have like kings

[00:39:30] under the Catholic Church anymore.

[00:39:32] We should organize in some way

[00:39:34] instead to gain legislative power

[00:39:36] in democratic systems for Catholicism.

[00:39:39] That was like a millennium afterwards, right?

[00:39:41] Like Leo VIII, if I recall,

[00:39:43] he’s from like before 1000, isn’t he?

[00:39:47] There’s an anti-Pope named Pope Leo VIII

[00:39:50] who was around the 1000s.

[00:39:52] But this Pope Leo VIII that we’re talking about

[00:39:55] was head of the Catholic Church from February 1878 until 1903.

[00:39:59] Oh, so it’s like a recent pope.

[00:40:02] It’s complicated.

[00:40:03] There’s another earlier Leo VIII, you’re right,

[00:40:05] who’s around nine.

[00:40:07] Yeah, he’s an anti-Pope from 963 to 965,

[00:40:10] whose election was debated.

[00:40:11] Wasn’t he the one that was like,

[00:40:13] they were all excommunicating each other?

[00:40:15] Yeah, he was during the anti-Pope period.

[00:40:17] But there’s another Leo VIII who’s the head of

[00:40:20] and who’s an official pope from like 1878 to 1903, right?

[00:40:24] Man.

[00:40:25] Yeah, popes, right?

[00:40:26] Why would you take that name?

[00:40:28] Yeah, I’m not familiar enough with papistry

[00:40:32] to give you a whole like why he decided to take that kind of cursed name.

[00:40:37] But he’s the pope who like writes an encyclical being like,

[00:40:40] we Catholics should just find a way to kind of make democracy work for Catholicism, right?

[00:40:45] We should organize and find ways to gain power in democracies, you know?

[00:40:49] That’s kind of like one of the things he writes

[00:40:51] and this has a really big impact on Salazar.

[00:40:54] But no, good point.

[00:40:55] This is not the pope from the 960s.

[00:40:58] Okay.

[00:40:59] That guy was debatably not the real pope.

[00:41:01] I didn’t mean to derail the pod, but I’m just like, wait, I know that’s me.

[00:41:04] It’s always hard with the anti-popes, right?

[00:41:06] There’s a lot of names where you’re like, wait a second.

[00:41:08] Yeah, no, no, no.

[00:41:09] And I’m sure you guys have talked about it before,

[00:41:11] but just this idea that there was like at one point

[00:41:13] like just a bunch of popes excommunicating each other.

[00:41:15] And we could get there again.

[00:41:17] That’s my dream for Catholicism.

[00:41:19] Yeah, fuck it.

[00:41:20] Are you not happy with the current pope?

[00:41:22] Go to Avignon and have a new pope made, you know?

[00:41:25] I mean, I do like a Chicago pope.

[00:41:27] Yeah.

[00:41:28] It’s nice to have a Chicago pope,

[00:41:30] but I think we could get a Boston pope

[00:41:32] and really just have a battle of the accents, you know?

[00:41:34] I got to be 100% honest.

[00:41:36] We don’t have a great track record.

[00:41:38] We probably shouldn’t have a Boston pope.

[00:41:40] Cardinals have done some stuff.

[00:41:41] I mean, to be fair, most, if not all, cardinals have done some stuff.

[00:41:44] Yeah, yeah.

[00:41:45] Very few clean cardinals out there.

[00:41:47] You know what?

[00:41:48] I like the idea of a Boston pope, though,

[00:41:50] because like that’s the first pope that would be willing to fight you in a toll booth.

[00:41:53] Yeah.

[00:41:54] I like that.

[00:41:55] Let’s just give it to Ben Affleck.

[00:41:56] See if he could take it.

[00:41:58] So he can do a bad accent?

[00:42:00] Yeah.

[00:42:01] Of his own town?

[00:42:02] Yeah.

[00:42:03] Pope Affleck the first?

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] Let’s let it happen.

[00:42:06] Yeah.

[00:42:07] Pope Benedict, kid.

[00:42:08] Yeah.

[00:42:09] So Salazar, who’s, you know, starting to accept like,

[00:42:15] okay, maybe we should find a way to organize under democracy.

[00:42:18] He joins a school association while he’s in college,

[00:42:22] the Center for Christian Democracy,

[00:42:24] which when the Republicans had come to power,

[00:42:26] they’d like banned for a couple of years,

[00:42:28] but ultimately allowed to reform in 1936.

[00:42:30] In 1912.

[00:42:31] And it was for this group that Salazar gives his first public speech,

[00:42:34] where he describes himself as a Christian democratic soldier.

[00:42:38] Two years later, he leads a delegation to Lisbon,

[00:42:41] which protests an attempt to turn a local church building into a museum.

[00:42:45] His academic career flourishes around this time.

[00:42:48] He receives awards from his liberal and conservative teachers alike,

[00:42:52] because his economic papers are in their eyes like so brilliant and well thought out.

[00:42:57] And he opens a consulting firm that gives out financial

[00:42:59] and legal advice to like companies and whatnot that are,

[00:43:02] you know, trying to figure out how to get by in this very chaotic time

[00:43:06] in which the Portuguese economy is not doing well.

[00:43:09] And he’s good enough at this.

[00:43:11] Per Tom Gallagher, quote,

[00:43:13] he now had enough money to augment his wardrobe with elegant clothes.

[00:43:16] He attended soirees and receptions and his circle of friends widened.

[00:43:20] Catholics and conservatives predominated,

[00:43:22] but not all of them were from such backgrounds.

[00:43:24] So he’s making money.

[00:43:25] He’s starting to enter high society.

[00:43:27] He’s becoming a known man.

[00:43:28] And he’s becoming a known like kind of firebrand right wing intellectual type.

[00:43:34] Right.

[00:43:35] He’s a little bit of like a Jordan Peterson figure.

[00:43:37] If Jordan Peterson had been good at something.

[00:43:40] And he continues to work as a tutor,

[00:43:42] which seems to still have be his kind of bread and butter.

[00:43:44] He would later claimed tutoring did two things for me.

[00:43:47] It kept me in the university and it kept me out of trouble.

[00:43:50] But this is not exactly true.

[00:43:52] Right.

[00:43:53] I was like sleeping around.

[00:43:54] He’s still fucking.

[00:43:55] Right.

[00:43:56] And he’s kind of noteworthy.

[00:43:57] And as a figure in this period,

[00:43:59] most of his earliest friends are women and girls,

[00:44:02] including 16 year old Julia Perestrello,

[00:44:05] who’s the daughter of his godmother and the wealthy benefactors of his family.

[00:44:09] Right.

[00:44:10] So this is the daughter of the family that’s like paying for him to go to college that like his dad is employed by.

[00:44:15] He falls in love with this.

[00:44:16] Now quick reminder.

[00:44:17] How old is this man again?

[00:44:18] Very good point.

[00:44:19] She is 16 and he is 23 years old.

[00:44:22] So that’s a bit of an age gap.

[00:44:24] It is.

[00:44:25] And that’s kind of an uncomfortable period.

[00:44:26] Not bad.

[00:44:27] Not bad for the era.

[00:44:28] It’s he’s he’s it’s not like it wouldn’t have been if he had have been from the same social strata as she it wouldn’t have been noticed in the era.

[00:44:37] Right.

[00:44:38] Yeah.

[00:44:39] It’s kind of one of those things where,

[00:44:40] like,

[00:44:41] you’re looking back and you’re like,

[00:44:42] you know what?

[00:44:43] Yeah.

[00:44:44] That’s age appropriate for the time.

[00:44:45] It would.

[00:44:46] It wouldn’t have been white like people.

[00:44:47] Yes.

[00:44:48] If he’d been rich,

[00:44:49] if he’d been rich,

[00:44:50] it wouldn’t have been weird.

[00:44:51] But because he’s from a poor background,

[00:44:53] her parents are like,

[00:44:54] absolutely not.

[00:44:55] And we look at the age gap and go like,

[00:44:56] Oh, yeah,

[00:44:57] that’s not inappropriate.

[00:44:58] But they’re just being like,

[00:44:59] well,

[00:45:00] but his parents aren’t rich.

[00:45:01] So this isn’t an appropriate match.

[00:45:02] Right.

[00:45:03] That’s the only real issue they have.

[00:45:05] He’s like,

[00:45:06] don’t worry.

[00:45:07] Yeah,

[00:45:08] I’ll take care of that.

[00:45:09] It’s sort of like the Dr.

[00:45:10] Pepper guy named Dr.

[00:45:11] Pepper after the dad that said he’d never amount to anything.

[00:45:13] That’s that.

[00:45:14] Is that the story of Dr.

[00:45:15] Pepper?

[00:45:16] I it might be apocryphal,

[00:45:18] but I’m pretty sure it’s Dr.

[00:45:19] Pepper was the guy that wouldn’t allow a dude to marry.

[00:45:23] The creator wanted to marry the guy’s daughter.

[00:45:26] And he said,

[00:45:27] that sounds accurate as the for the official soda of Texas at that.

[00:45:30] That sounds like the kind of con man origin story.

[00:45:33] I don’t like that.

[00:45:34] The official soda of Texas is my favorite soda.

[00:45:37] Oh,

[00:45:38] it is,

[00:45:39] unfortunately.

[00:45:40] But let’s turn to a more comfortable subject than Texas.

[00:45:44] This 23 year old hitting on a teenager.

[00:45:46] Much better.

[00:45:47] He decides to hit on her in the most appropriate manner for the time,

[00:45:52] which is he writes an article about how hot he is for this girl in a Catholic

[00:45:56] magazine.

[00:45:57] He had contributed to this publication before,

[00:46:00] but he’d mostly written like serious articles about Catholicism in democracy

[00:46:05] and like scholarly studies about like how,

[00:46:08] what the Catholic church,

[00:46:09] what role it should have in a modern society.

[00:46:11] And so he kind of changes up on his normal publication by writing a column

[00:46:16] that’s just titled she.

[00:46:18] And in it,

[00:46:19] he’s describes it as like it’s,

[00:46:20] it’s kind of written as a fictional piece.

[00:46:22] And he’s writing a sort of like an anonymous author who’s in love with a girl

[00:46:26] who lives in a wealthy manner,

[00:46:28] but it’s financially out of his league.

[00:46:30] And it’s written in such a way that the,

[00:46:32] the subject of his affections is anonymized.

[00:46:34] And he can argue like,

[00:46:35] this is not a literally true article.

[00:46:38] It’s like,

[00:46:39] I’m,

[00:46:40] I’m writing,

[00:46:41] you know,

[00:46:42] he’s like,

[00:46:43] I’m plagiarizing lady in the tramp,

[00:46:44] but it’s,

[00:46:45] it’s,

[00:46:46] it’s very clear that like,

[00:46:47] oh,

[00:46:48] this is Salazar writing about a teenager that he’s hot for.

[00:46:49] Right.

[00:46:50] That’s too,

[00:46:51] that’s from a family that’s too rich for him.

[00:46:52] And I can’t imagine what must have been going through his head to make him write this thing,

[00:46:54] let alone,

[00:46:55] like his editor is like,

[00:46:57] well,

[00:46:58] you mostly write about the Pope,

[00:46:59] but yeah,

[00:47:00] this,

[00:47:01] this article about how you’ve,

[00:47:02] you’ve got a crush on a 13 year old girl.

[00:47:03] Sounds great,

[00:47:04] man.

[00:47:05] Let’s,

[00:47:06] I thought she was 16.

[00:47:07] Wait,

[00:47:08] is she 13?

[00:47:09] Or 16,

[00:47:10] sorry,

[00:47:11] sorry,

[00:47:12] 16 year old girl.

[00:47:13] He’s like,

[00:47:14] yeah,

[00:47:15] why not?

[00:47:16] Let’s,

[00:47:17] let’s publish this fucker.

[00:47:18] Yeah.

[00:47:19] I did,

[00:47:20] I did need to clarify specifically because I previously had gone on record and be saying

[00:47:21] that wasn’t that bad for the time.

[00:47:22] No,

[00:47:23] no,

[00:47:24] no,

[00:47:25] no,

[00:47:26] I like that.

[00:47:27] Yeah.

[00:47:28] And so I finally walked into the head of this editor.

[00:47:29] Who’s like,

[00:47:30] yeah,

[00:47:31] this sounds like a good article for you to publish an Antonio and I can’t get into

[00:47:32] Antonio who was like,

[00:47:33] yeah,

[00:47:34] this,

[00:47:35] this will clearly work for me,

[00:47:36] right?

[00:47:37] And unfortunately for him,

[00:47:38] fortunately,

[00:47:39] probably for that girl.

[00:47:40] His,

[00:47:41] the,

[00:47:42] the girl like her mom,

[00:47:43] who’s,

[00:47:44] again the patron of Salazar’s family,

[00:47:46] uh,

[00:47:47] she catches onto this.

[00:47:48] Like she reads this magazine because she is from a rich conservative Catholic family

[00:47:52] and she sees,

[00:47:53] oh,

[00:47:54] tutor we’ve hired to tutor our teenage daughter is writing an article about how he’s got a crush

[00:48:00] on a teenage girl who lives in a manor and who’s much richer than him. I wonder if it’s Antonio.

[00:48:07] We should probably start watching them, right? Like we should keep an eye on these two. This

[00:48:12] does not sound good. That seems pretty chill. Yeah. Just be like, hey, should we should we

[00:48:19] pay attention to this? Yeah, we should probably keep an eye on what’s happening with this kid

[00:48:22] and our daughter. If a Facebook dad saw this, he’d be like, touch my family and there’ll be two

[00:48:29] hits, me hitting you and you hitting the ground. But they don’t have Facebook. So their only option

[00:48:35] is to like keep an eye on her homework. So they’re like paying attention to the homework he’s giving

[00:48:39] her. And Antonio gives Julia some suspicious homework, right? He tells her to write an essay

[00:48:45] on love. And so this this really gets their their guard up. And they’re like, OK, yeah,

[00:48:50] he’s definitely hitting on our daughter.

[00:48:52] And then her mom finds like she’s they start monitoring Julia’s mail and they find a letter

[00:48:59] that Salazar sends Julia, which is, to be blunt, very inappropriate. Right. And the peristrellas,

[00:49:05] again, their primary problem is that he’s poor and she’s rich. And so after they catch this letter,

[00:49:10] they just make sure he’s not going to be tutoring her anymore and he’s never going to get any

[00:49:16] unobserved access to their daughter again. Right. So they lock this down because she’s supposed to

[00:49:21] marry a rich guy.

[00:49:22] Right. That’s that’s their reasoning.

[00:49:24] Yeah.

[00:49:24] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:49:27] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:49:28] We’ve all heard the song.

[00:49:29] Yeah. Now, one of Salazar’s mentors in the church, who’s like one of these fathers who’s kind of

[00:49:36] taking this kid under his wing, finds out about this. I think Julia’s mom comes to him and is

[00:49:40] like, you need to talk to this boy. And so he sits down with Salazar and they have like a literal

[00:49:45] come to Jesus moment where he’s basically like, hey, you’re one of the best minds that are the

[00:49:49] Catholic conservative movement has.

[00:49:51] What the fuck are you doing?

[00:49:52] Pining over a teenager in the goddamn newspaper. Are you out of your mind? Right. Like this is not

[00:49:58] smart behavior. And this warning Salazar never stops socializing with women and girls. Right.

[00:50:05] He will continue to do that for most of the rest of his life. But he is going to get a lot more

[00:50:10] careful about it. And he’s going to learn how to like hide this in a much better way than writing

[00:50:14] newspaper articles about his crushes. So he takes that warning. And you know what else our listeners

[00:50:20] should take?

[00:50:21] Is the advice of these products and services.

[00:50:25] They should take note of what we’re about to say.

[00:50:27] Yeah. Yeah. Take note and give some companies your credit card information. It never works out badly.

[00:50:34] No breaches.

[00:50:35] Yeah. It’s never happened.

[00:50:40] Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[00:50:44] When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[00:50:49] We didn’t worry about what went on.

[00:50:51] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:50:55] Inside Charlie’s place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

[00:51:03] You saw the KKK?

[00:51:04] Yeah. They were dressed up in their uniform.

[00:51:07] The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

[00:51:12] Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[00:51:20] From Atlas Obscura,

[00:51:21] Rococo Punch and Visit Myrtle Beach comes Charlie’s Place, a story that was nearly lost to time, until now.

[00:51:29] Listen to Charlie’s Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:51:39] Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[00:51:44] When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[00:51:49] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:51:51] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:51:55] Inside Charlie’s place, black and white people danced together.

[00:51:59] But not everyone was happy about it.

[00:52:02] You saw the KKK?

[00:52:04] Yeah. They were dressed up in their uniform.

[00:52:07] The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

[00:52:12] Charlie was an example of power.

[00:52:17] They had to crush him.

[00:52:19] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:52:19] When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[00:52:19] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:52:19] We didn’t worry about what went on inside.

[00:52:19] We didn’t worry about what went on inside.

[00:52:20] From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and Visit Myrtle Beach, a story that was nearly lost to time.

[00:52:20] When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[00:52:20] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:52:20] skira rococo punch and visit myrtle beach comes charlie’s place a story that was nearly lost to

[00:52:26] time until now listen to charlie’s place on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you

[00:52:33] get your podcasts this is rider strong with a podcast called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor

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[00:53:51] and we’re back ah so salazar is kind of establishing himself as an intellectual

[00:54:02] he’s learning how to flirt sometimes even with adults uh and while this is going on

[00:54:07] yeah if he had a nickname can we call him the sexual intellectual yeah yeah you could call him

[00:54:12] that um because i’m going to call him the sexual intellectual i’m going to call him the sexual intellectual

[00:54:14] for the rest of the show you sure shouldn’t um but that’s yeah that’s what he’s doing right and

[00:54:19] the new republican government of portugal is kind of shitting the bed as he is coming up and becoming

[00:54:24] more prominent and learning how to kind of keep a lid on some of his proclivities and part of why

[00:54:30] the republican government shits the bed in this period is that world war one happens and portugal

[00:54:35] does not have a dog in that fight right they shouldn’t have there is no re you just look at

[00:54:40] the map there’s no fucking reason for portugal to get involved in that fight right there’s no

[00:54:44] fucking reason for portugal to get involved in world war goddamn one like we’re gonna go swimming

[00:54:47] yeah you go swimming you you’re living portugal enjoy the beach what is wrong with you don’t

[00:54:52] send soldiers to die in the western front you don’t want some teenager to get wrapped up in

[00:54:56] barbed wire waiting to kill kaiser get out of here come on what are you doing got a couple of frisbees

[00:55:02] some sketch balls you know you have a there’s a couple of there’s a lot of smaller european

[00:55:06] countries like this that are like you have no you have no reason to get involved and they do

[00:55:11] and it goes badly for everyone who’s like you’re not going to get involved in the war you’re not

[00:55:14] well maybe if we get involved in world war one we can help tip things and we can get some shit

[00:55:18] in the uh in the peace negotiations after and the republican government they largely get involved

[00:55:24] in world war one because they’ve got all these african colonies and they’re worried that if

[00:55:28] there’s like a negotiated peace england might give away some of portugal’s african possessions

[00:55:33] to the kaiser in exchange for like a better peace deal and so we don’t really want to risk that so

[00:55:39] we’ll send some men off to die in the western front and fighting in africa and they wind up

[00:55:44] losing like ten thousand soldiers and just pointless battles right and for in world war one

[00:55:49] terms they get off pretty light like that’s not a lot of guys to lose in world war one by the stand

[00:55:55] it is also 10 000 people right it’s still 10 000 people who absolutely didn’t need to be involved

[00:56:01] in that stupid fucking war and it costs a shitload of money and just the fact that they’ve gotten

[00:56:07] involved in this disastrous war and they don’t get really shit in the peace it rattles the new

[00:56:12] regime’s public support and it’s a lot of money and it’s a lot of money and it’s a lot of money

[00:56:14] people are like well fuck this republican government doesn’t seem a whole lot better

[00:56:17] than the one that it replaced right pointless wars wasting money on stupid bullshit did we

[00:56:23] just replace one set of assholes with another set of assholes and salazar pretty much history

[00:56:29] politics as well that’s the world right it’s like yeah which set of assholes you know maybe they suck

[00:56:34] a little less yeah yeah yeah it’s like i wouldn’t mind an asshole that’s not trying to like destroy

[00:56:39] the lives of every person in the country yeah yeah maybe we could get a slightly better asshole

[00:56:44] who’s just corrupt and incompetent and if we got to throw some adrenochrome at them to keep it going

[00:56:48] let’s do it yeah keep the peace you know keep the peace um and keep the adrenochrome flowing

[00:56:54] um i don’t know man i gotta try that stuff because it sounds it’s good it’s great you

[00:56:58] gotta get it from the brain of somebody who’s had it really harvested you know before oh yeah you

[00:57:03] don’t want like the fake no no no true blood adrenochrome no no you want you want the really

[00:57:08] good shit from the source you tap directly from the source that’s right that’s right um this episode

[00:57:14] yeah exactly use a promo code uh uh no i’m not gonna make a jeffrey epstein joke here what i am

[00:57:21] gonna say is that antonio salazar in this period when people are starting to get angry at the

[00:57:27] republic uh he becomes a very popular lecturer and he’s also he’s working as an economics professor

[00:57:32] right now so he’s lecturing about how fucked up the system is how the right and the conservative

[00:57:37] catholics need to come into power and he’s also writing studies on like wheat reform and the role

[00:57:42] of gold and finance and he’s repeatedly

[00:57:44] arguing portugal’s government is spending too much money which it is like he’s not wrong about

[00:57:49] his fundamental economic conclusions and his economic work is widely applauded and in july of

[00:57:55] of 1918 he appears on the color of catholic illustrated um as an up-and-coming thinker

[00:58:01] swimsuit edition yeah the swimsuit edition he’s naked he’s got one of those you know

[00:58:05] italian banana hammocks tasteful yeah it’s very tasteful right you know they’re like portugal

[00:58:10] you know he’s right there on the water like it’s natural yeah

[00:58:14] yeah the lighting’s perfect um so by this point a new group of anti-government rebels is ascendant

[00:58:20] uh they’re called the integralists and these are members of the wealthier classes who had sought

[00:58:25] a break from the republic and return to a more authoritarian government if not a monarchy

[00:58:30] you know so they’re they’re like we probably can’t go all the way back to the way things

[00:58:34] used to be but we could we should have a system where the rabble have less power where like

[00:58:38] regular people have less ability to like influence the government

[00:58:44] in portugal especially in like the middle class and upper middle class are more sympathetic to

[00:58:48] these aims because in the aftermath of the war portugal is in chaos the new government is running

[00:58:53] up tremendous debts and even though they’re on the winning side of the war they’re not spared

[00:58:58] the unrest that hits in places like germany there’s an open civil war in the north of the

[00:59:02] country uh in a monarchist coup in 1919 that gets suppressed and in that same year as there’s a civil

[00:59:09] war in this coup four different governments come and go in lisbon right this is like a parliamentary

[00:59:14] system where you know if the government can’t form a coalition it gets dissolved and so there’s

[00:59:18] just constant turnover in chaos i like the idea that they attempted a coup in 1919 it’s like

[00:59:23] where’d you get that idea guys yeah wow no one else was doing coups in 1919 creative portugal

[00:59:29] wow really going for it yeah so the same year that that’s all going on 1919 salazar gets suspended

[00:59:36] from his job for spreading monarchist propaganda although he argues in court that he’s not

[00:59:41] political he only his only involvement in politics is voting

[00:59:44] and he publishes an article defending himself widely in which he argues i am convinced that

[00:59:49] politics alone can never solve the great problems that demand solution and that it is a grave

[00:59:53] mistake to expect everything from their evolution or from an arbitrary departure from their normal

[00:59:58] course i am sure that the solution is to be found more in each one of us than in the political color

[01:00:02] of a ministry so far as i can i try to make my students men men in the best sense of the word

[01:00:07] and good portuguese of the type which portugal needs to make her great right now let me tell

[01:00:12] you about this girl i love yeah

[01:00:14] now let me tell you about this teenager that i got the hots for yeah

[01:00:17] now the reality is that salazar is very political all right he gets his phd after the war ends and

[01:00:24] he is actively as a teacher trying to cultivate this like new generation of conservative activists

[01:00:30] he helps found the catholic sinner party uh and in 1921 he’s one of three of their members to be

[01:00:36] elected to the parliament he actually only gets to go to work at the parliament for two days

[01:00:41] and he hates it right like because there’s these

[01:00:44] all these constant debates over what to do and he can’t just like tell people this is what you’re

[01:00:48] going to do to fix the economy this is what we’re going to do to like get things on the right course

[01:00:52] he gets really angry and he’s like i don’t want to do this fucking job um even though he gets

[01:00:57] elected to several important financial committees but he starts whining to his mentors in the

[01:01:02] catholic clergy and the university that he doesn’t want to do this job he campaigned to get it’s too

[01:01:06] hard he’s stuck in the mud and his mentors are like but you’re in power and you have you have

[01:01:11] a chance to put your theory into practice and they accuse him of doing it and he’s like i don’t want to do it

[01:01:14] they accuse him of not taking the work seriously i would like to add that this is the most relatable

[01:01:19] man we have ever covered on this right right and just the terms like yeah it sucks to be in politics

[01:01:23] yeah it’s a guy that wanted a job and then he’s immediately like i immediately regret wanting

[01:01:28] this job oh my god you have this job you wanted yeah i fucking hate it yeah it’s terrible and he

[01:01:34] gets really lucky that in october like he only ever does like two days actually doing this job

[01:01:40] in parliament and in october the conservative government and coalition collapsed

[01:01:44] because left-wing militants assassinate the prime minister and a number of their other

[01:01:48] conservative political enemies so he’s like well i guess i’m not going to continue trying to be in

[01:01:53] the government seems dangerous right now i’m going to go back to being a teacher and all this violence

[01:01:59] which isn’t limited to the assassinations or to the left there’s just a lot of political violence

[01:02:03] largely in lisbon and it it you know it’s happening as they’re going through multiple governments

[01:02:08] every single year there’s all this conflict the economy is in the shitter the currency

[01:02:13] is worth nothing the republic is obviously weak and people are tired of just this constant

[01:02:19] turnover of nothing working and as they’re continuing to be exhausted in 1922 they watch

[01:02:26] fascism come to italy and they also watch this right-wing military dictatorship take over in

[01:02:31] spain under primo de rivera the following year and they’re like well maybe you know maybe it’s not

[01:02:37] exactly italian fascism maybe it’s not exactly the spanish are doing but some sort of like

[01:02:41] authoritarian right-wing regime

[01:02:43] maybe that’ll fix all of our problems right that’s all yeah that’ll fix that historically

[01:02:49] fixes probably yeah historically seems like the right idea yeah just fascism primavera or

[01:02:54] whatever the hell yeah primo de rivera yeah we’ll take it so by this point the right is ascendant

[01:02:59] across portugal young military officers who had been radicalized during the war link up with youth

[01:03:05] organizations a lot of which had been inspired by morris’s movement in france and the writing

[01:03:09] of guys like salazar right he’s not like leading directly but he has been inspired by the

[01:03:13] right wing youth organizations and you know they are starting to gain power even at the same time

[01:03:22] as he can barely keep himself together like he is scared by number one it’s dangerous to be a public

[01:03:28] conservative intellectual in this period it’s dangerous to be anyone who’s public and political

[01:03:32] in this period dangerous to be an intellectual in any period right it’s never super safe and he is

[01:03:38] he’s kind of crippled by panic attacks and psychosomatic illnesses right like he he can’t

[01:03:43] really keep himself together even though his side of things seems to be doing well he runs for office

[01:03:49] in 1925 and he doesn’t does not do a great job of it right he’s his heart really isn’t in it

[01:03:55] and then in may of 1926 without salazar’s help the republican government falls to a military coup

[01:04:02] by these like right-wing military officers now by this point the economy is in the shitter

[01:04:07] completely which is a big part of why the coup succeeds like the old government hadn’t been

[01:04:11] keeping things together and they don’t have much support and they don’t have much support

[01:04:13] the generals who’d overthrown the republican government know they can’t just sit back and

[01:04:18] hope for things to get better right they had like the military might to take over but they don’t

[01:04:22] know how to run an economy right they’re generals and they’re portuguese generals so they barely know

[01:04:27] how to run a military right um i don’t want to quote what a win then you know yeah it’s not hard

[01:04:33] to take over from the guys without guns right yeah without as many yeah i guess i guess that’s right

[01:04:39] but it’s just very funny that they’re like look they’re bad at pretty much everything yeah we

[01:04:43] know yeah how bad this the previous guys were the previous ones were yeah and so they’re going to

[01:04:49] be like we need someone to help us figure out how to actually fix things otherwise we’re just going

[01:04:54] to get overthrown in short succession i’m going to quote from an article in the new york times by

[01:04:59] alvin whitman here the victorious generals asked salazar then reputed to be an economic wizard to

[01:05:05] take over the ministry of finance he demanded a free hand to execute his reforms and this being

[01:05:09] refused he went back to teaching and this is what’s so interesting to me about

[01:05:13] salazar is he’s he’s not in a lot of ways like a guy like hitler like a guy like mussolini

[01:05:19] he obviously he’s interested in power or he wouldn’t have gotten into politics at all or

[01:05:23] entertain the idea but it’s not his primary motivating force in life he actually does

[01:05:28] have a plan b and he would have been somewhat content just continuing to be an intellectual

[01:05:32] so like taking power being a dictator is an option for him but it’s not his only option

[01:05:38] and it’s not the one he’s putting most of his effort and time into right up until i like the

[01:05:43] idea that he’s just playing hard to get yeah he’s like it’s like he’s buying a car right right and

[01:05:48] he’s like this is what i want like well we can’t do that he’s like well then i’m gonna walk away

[01:05:51] yeah then i’ll walk away we can move some numbers around here yeah yeah and that that’s kind of what

[01:05:56] happens here right is that he shows that like i’m not obsessed with taking this position unless i

[01:06:01] can really get a free hand in things and the generals are desperate enough that like eventually

[01:06:05] they agree to do that i’m gonna quit you learn this from all the fucking right yes this is

[01:06:10] really hard to get that’s what taught him how to uh how to win the dictatorship of

[01:06:13] portugal there it is you show too much interest you say you write an essay about it that’s not

[01:06:18] gonna go great you’ve gotta neg the military dictatorship in order to be appointed the

[01:06:22] dictator right that’s how it always works yeah i’d uh you know i i would be your dictator if

[01:06:29] you if you know wore makeup or something yeah if you wore if you dress up a little bit come on how

[01:06:33] many medals have you guys even won here are we not even shaving our country’s legs anymore yeah

[01:06:38] like what’s going on portugal military um yeah get some better cannons or something

[01:06:43] so uh i’m gonna quote from whitman’s article again here two years later general antonio oscar

[01:06:49] de fragosa carmona engineered his election as president of portugal and he promptly put salazar

[01:06:54] in charge of the nation’s purse strings by cutting public spending and by judicious taxation salazar

[01:06:59] succeeded within a year in balancing the budget for the first time since 1910 shortly too he

[01:07:04] liquidated the foreign debt and lifted the escudo the monetary unit to a premium on foreign exchanges

[01:07:09] the end that’s the end that’s the end of the story he’s a great man

[01:07:13] he uh he gets his free hand in managing the economy and he’s really good at it right he

[01:07:19] manages to do what his predecessors could never do he balances the budget and he takes the escudo

[01:07:24] had been like a laughingstock in european finance for years and he restores stability in a way that

[01:07:29] just hadn’t existed for a long time his popularity grows and it becomes very clear to the military

[01:07:35] that salazar is indispensable in politics right like we have the guns but we don’t know how to

[01:07:41] manage an economy we’re certainly not in the business of the military we’re certainly not in the

[01:07:43] better at it than the people that we deposed they have the plans but we have the power right yeah

[01:07:49] you just like yeah just like in the simpsons um in 1932 salazar becomes the president of the

[01:07:55] council of ministries which effectively puts him in charge of the country right so he’s kind of

[01:08:00] like because he’s so good at this these generals all they know how to do is you know control the

[01:08:05] guys with guns but salazar knows how to make the economy stable which allows him to keep the

[01:08:10] wealthy and the powerful on his side and keep the people from rioting

[01:08:13] too much and so he just keeps demanding more and more power and the military is like i guess yeah

[01:08:19] you can have it right i guess you can have some more i guess you could have some more he’s like

[01:08:23] yeah exactly and kind of bit by bit he winds up the absolute dictator of portugal and he’s like

[01:08:31] starts to sideline the military and kick guys out who are threats to his power as he gains more

[01:08:36] and everyone’s too scared of him because they can’t keep the economy going on their own right

[01:08:41] which is such a different way from these other

[01:08:43] he’s not brought to power by a populist uprising he doesn’t like win mass votes in an election he’s

[01:08:50] not like mussolini or like hitler he keeps showing results in the economy and demanding more control

[01:08:55] and the military is like well no one else knows how to steer this thing right so i guess sure

[01:08:59] um i found a write-up in the textbook portuguese studies by paul santos and luciano de la rue

[01:09:05] and it describes what happens next within four short years salazar had so enhanced his prestige

[01:09:11] and developed his political power that he was nominated prime minister for the presidency of

[01:09:13] the army had no desire to govern and no plan for government anyway so they handed power back to

[01:09:19] civilians whom they regarded as trustworthy enough to protect their honor and keep his position

[01:09:22] secure therefore while the military had brought salazar to power the regime that he molded the

[01:09:27] estado novo after the return to barracks was very largely civilian and the estado novo is proclaimed

[01:09:34] in 1933 it means new state right so salazar he’s kind of officially in full power in 33 the same

[01:09:41] year that hitler rises to power and he says like we’re going to have a new state we’re going to have

[01:09:43] we’ve got a new state right and and there’s a new deal almost for portugal and her government

[01:09:49] that’s where fdr got it that’s where fdr took it from he should sue fdr yeah um or fdr should

[01:09:56] yeah um so salazar cribs a lot from hitler and you know which is part of why he gets

[01:10:02] yeah but he’s just it’s just sort of the aesthetics right like you can see

[01:10:08] he sees that like okay there’s some value in some of these fascist aesthetics but that’s

[01:10:13] he sees that like okay there’s some value in some of these fascist aesthetics but that’s

[01:10:14] right he doesn’t take power the way that hitler does he kind of like almost infects the coup that

[01:10:19] took power and then like takes over it he’s like one of those bugs that gets inside a wasp’s brain

[01:10:24] if the wasp is the portuguese military like a zombie bug or right right that’s how he does it

[01:10:30] which is very different from the other fascists right it kind of seems like he’s just uh using

[01:10:34] the hitler stuff as like flourishes yeah yeah like oh i can dress it up a little this is working

[01:10:39] right now this is the new hotness sure yeah shush it up a little bit yeah let’s put a sprinkle a

[01:10:43] bit of hitler around the edges yeah get a little hitler in there yeah a little bit of hitler in

[01:10:48] there for some spice just a dash of hitler yeah and he you know he uses he’s going to he has a

[01:10:53] secret police state as we’ll talk about and he’s going to use force and violence and he’s going to

[01:10:57] crib from the nazis very directly in several ways as to how his secret police works but he doesn’t

[01:11:02] have a cult of personality like hitler does and he’s actually kind of he has some respect for

[01:11:08] hitler in the early period but he’s also like he’s looking at all these weird esoteric aspects of

[01:11:13] like his beliefs and race science he’s like this guy is just kind of weird yeah i’ll also add that

[01:11:18] like not calling attention to it is a pretty good way to have a 40-year reign instead of

[01:11:23] shoot yourself in a bunker right exactly salazar doesn’t want to be a shoot himself in the bunker

[01:11:28] guy no man he’s spoiling the frog in the slow way you know like what’s interesting about him

[01:11:33] and the smartest thing about him is he understands there’s a limit to how much power you should seek

[01:11:39] salazar is never going to be a what if i tried to take all of europe guy he’s like i’m content

[01:11:43] with portuguese

[01:11:43] you know and all of her african properties which are much larger than portugal right

[01:11:48] but as we’ll like as we’ll talk about that’s a big deal but he’s not he’s never going to be a

[01:11:53] gamble too much to keep power sort of guy he’s a he’s smarter than that he’s probably the smartest

[01:12:00] of these these kind of right-wing dictators in europe in this period that some of those uh

[01:12:04] hitler germans are going to be learning portuguese if you know what i mean they sure are um salazar

[01:12:10] is a dyed-in-the-wool corporatist his charter for the

[01:12:13] which is approved by plebiscite in 1933 which is ostensibly a public vote but is not really a free

[01:12:20] one um this new state is described in the plebiscite as a unitary and corporative state

[01:12:25] only one party is allowed in the assembly and the premier who’s appointed by the president

[01:12:30] is unaccountable salazar is the premier in the early days as well as the finance minister and

[01:12:35] over the years he’s going to serve as foreign minister and minister of war and minister of

[01:12:39] the colonies kind of whenever he wants to assert direct control he’ll just have himself in the

[01:12:43] made the minister of that thing right but he’s always the dictator right he’s always kind of

[01:12:49] the guy where the buck stops and one of the first big things he cracks down on once the estado novo

[01:12:54] is declared the law of the land is women’s rights salazar writes that because women are so key to

[01:13:00] the structure of the family they shouldn’t be voting as a general rule now because he’s this

[01:13:05] guy he’s got a lot of close female friends who he takes very seriously he’s not completely against

[01:13:11] women having the vote so he’s letting he wants rich women to vote and he’s not completely against

[01:13:13] women having the vote so he’s letting he wants rich women to vote and he’s not completely against

[01:13:13] be able to vote if you’ve got university education then you can vote as a woman which you don’t

[01:13:19] necessarily need as a man even though nobody’s vote really matters all that much right um and

[01:13:25] his argument is that like yeah a few women have the rights to vote but most women should be forced

[01:13:31] to maintain a sort of femininity that he argues is conducive to the catholic norms of family life

[01:13:36] now this is what he’s yeah 2025 yeah he’s he’s modern in that way right and like all of these

[01:13:43] modern guys we have who say the same shit he doesn’t follow any of these rules in his normal

[01:13:48] life he never marries and he never has kids and he maintains this carousel of powerful women as

[01:13:54] lovers and advisors um he’s willing to make exceptions for women that he personally respects

[01:14:00] but he’s not willing to live like the idolized portuguese citizen nor does he want to have a

[01:14:04] family of his own uh catherine the great energy coming off of him very much so right per an

[01:14:10] article on portugal.com financial abuse against women is not a problem for women

[01:14:13] was institutionalized the law allowed husbands to prohibit wives from working outside the home

[01:14:18] women were not allowed to access certain professions diplomacy the military etc and

[01:14:23] certain professions like nursing had limited rights such as the right to marry a wife needed

[01:14:27] the consent of her husband to travel to another country contraceptives were only allowed for health

[01:14:31] reasons and even so the husband would need to give consent abortion was illegal in all cases

[01:14:36] with a prison sentence of up to eight years and so he cracks down on women’s rights and alongside

[01:14:42] this comes a cracked

[01:14:43] down in the white right to dissent in any way that might force a change in the estado novo

[01:14:48] salazar never tries he’s this is not a totalitarian state in the same way that is attempted in like

[01:14:54] germany but this is very likely the fact that he’s not trying for complete control is not that he

[01:15:00] doesn’t want it or is a better guy it’s that he’s smarter he knows that like you know if you grasp

[01:15:05] too tightly shit slides through your fingers right you know we we all know our star wars right we all

[01:15:10] know princess leo organa talking to grandma

[01:15:13] on the yeah that star and he’s like yeah there’s i’m that’s not really worth investing in right

[01:15:20] there’s an amount of force that is worthwhile to deploy against the people to stop things from

[01:15:24] getting too far along but there’s an amount of force that is going to like be dangerous to me

[01:15:29] and will drive up like support for any kind of like rebellious movement and i’m not going to

[01:15:34] play into that so the new constitution makes place for a new secret police force the pvde

[01:15:40] uh which in english stands for the state

[01:15:43] surveillance and defense police and the pvde is going to go under a couple of different names

[01:15:48] over the course of the estado novo we’re going to call them the pvde right now for the sake of

[01:15:53] going forward and to be fair he didn’t start portugal having a secret police this is always

[01:15:59] the case with these things this starts in the republic the republic began having a secret

[01:16:03] police force and under the republic the secret police force starts maintaining a prison called

[01:16:08] the alube in lisbon i’m going to quote from an article in the newspaper portugal resident here

[01:16:13] the building is close to the cathedral in the center of lisbon and has a long history of

[01:16:17] imprisonment firstly until 1820 for those condemned by the ecclesiastical courts and for

[01:16:21] the next hundred years for women convicted of common crimes the word alube comes from the

[01:16:25] arabic and means either a well or cistern and by extension a dungeon so starting in 1928 the

[01:16:32] military dictatorship began building a network of informants through the pvde and started the

[01:16:37] practice of sending them to al yuday to be tortured salazar turns up the speed on this

[01:16:41] process and under his new state creative new government the pvde is going to be the first

[01:16:43] to introduce a new torture methods are introduced hell yeah man it’s called innovation it’s called

[01:16:48] innovate we’re gonna beat people and we’re gonna sleep deprive them but we’re also going to

[01:16:53] introduce something new called the statue which is where a prisoner is forced to stand with his

[01:16:57] arms extended without moving for hours or even days at a time and if you wait i’m gonna tell

[01:17:02] you though that’s really great for your shoulders oh yeah incredible shoulder exercise what you’re

[01:17:07] doing is instead of building bulk you’re actually building a more tight striated muscle it’s really

[01:17:11] really good if you’re like a fighter now the downside of the pvde is that it’s not just a

[01:17:13] you get beaten senseless by the guards if you move your arms at all which is not so good for

[01:17:19] building up good straight muscle okay it’s called coaching it’s called coaching we’re trying to make

[01:17:24] you stronger i’m like that’s that to me i’m like yeah that sounds pretty standard yeah yeah that’s

[01:17:29] that’s what brings the regime down as they make too many great boxers yeah too many powerful tight

[01:17:35] yeah so the name of the game in this new state is maintaining a sense of quiet respectability

[01:17:43] and not just a sense of respectability but a sense of respectability and not just a sense of

[01:17:43] not freaking out the regular citizenry too much right and this is while torturing anyone who’s

[01:17:48] like too much of a communist or republican activist so that you’re still kind of it’s

[01:17:52] not accountability would be the wrong term but salazar is scared of being too publicly brutal

[01:17:58] and in fact once the neighborhood complains about the constant screaming coming from the

[01:18:02] prison the pvde moves their torture operations to a more secluded environment so there’s like a

[01:18:07] we’re not going to be better but we will be quieter because again we don’t want to we don’t

[01:18:13] over the line here otherwise that’s going to like spark the kind of rebellion we don’t want to deal

[01:18:18] with i like that it’s just like a noise complaint yeah it’s like a noise complaint you got to be

[01:18:23] quieter with the torture guys can you keep the suffering down a little bit yeah you’re freaking

[01:18:28] out the neighbors and some of them have real money like they’re taxpayers right we don’t want

[01:18:32] to make them uncomfortable um so the new state has begun at this point by like the mid-30s and

[01:18:38] for the next four decades antonio salazar will rule portugal with an iron fist and we’ll talk

[01:18:43] what he does in power in part two but first jeff we’re going to talk about where the audience can

[01:18:49] find you on the internet oh god that’s where i live that’s where you that’s where we all live

[01:18:55] i do a lot of stuff and it’s really fun and it’s all very different so you’re welcome to um check

[01:19:00] out any or all of these things uh first and foremost i uh i have a show called jeff has

[01:19:05] cool friends where i interview just people that i think uh are in my life that i find very

[01:19:09] interesting sometimes they are famous celebrities and sometimes they’re people

[01:19:13] i went to high school with but i just it’s really fun it’s a really fun way to sort of learn more

[01:19:18] about people and stuff like that i do that show i also do a show called nerd on that same network

[01:19:23] as well the jeff has cool friends sort of brand that’s with my friend dre alvarez and uh i also do

[01:19:28] a monthly show called um the monthly flow with andrea gazzetta you can get those all early

[01:19:33] uncensored bonus stuff at patreon.com slash jeff may um you can get uh nerd and jeff has cool

[01:19:39] friends for free everywhere else later hell yeah i i do uh

[01:19:43] watch batman with our friend tom ryman on gamefully unemployed i do lots of great shows with adam

[01:19:48] todd brown on the you don’t even like podcast network um i also open cards on camera and i

[01:19:55] send them to people on the at jeff has cool cards network and you can actually get cards in the mail

[01:20:00] like a care package from me uh over on the patreon so lots of really cool stuff and you can find me

[01:20:05] at hey there jeff wrote two on instagram because they booted my last one because they accused me

[01:20:10] of selling sex which i did not do no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

[01:20:13] no i do not have the confidence to do that yeah unlike antonio salazar oh he didn’t have to sell

[01:20:20] it no no he was he was he was giving that shit away and if you’re in uh if you’re in burbank or

[01:20:24] the southern california area i do a great comedy show the second friday of every month at blast

[01:20:28] from the past on magnolia and it is called mint on card it’s a comedy in a toy store

[01:20:33] comedy in a toy store well everybody check out jeff find him on the old internet and uh find us

[01:20:39] on thursday which is like two days from now

[01:20:43] uh talking about the rest of antonio salazar’s life all right that’s it bye

[01:20:49] behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media for more from cool zone media visit our

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