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Leitura de 28 min

Goal of the Goal - Using Goals As A Prioritization Clarifying Tool

Summary

In this episode of Developer Tea, host Jonathan Cuttrell explores the fundamental importance of setting clear goals in a developer’s career. He argues that a well-positioned goal is perhaps the most important tool a developer can have, as it provides clarity, perspective, and purpose. Without personal goals, individuals risk having their time and effort dictated by others, making it difficult to steer their own career development toward desired outcomes like new roles, domains, or skills.

Cuttrell acknowledges common struggles with goal-setting, noting that many people lack practice and that even managerial systems often fail to provide clear guidance. While frameworks like SMART goals are useful, he emphasizes that the most critical factor is relevance. The core challenge is deciding what goal to set in the first place. He demystifies the process, framing the “goal of the goal” as a tool for decision-making, prioritization, and focusing effort.

The episode provides actionable advice for those unsure where to start. Cuttrell recommends beginning with small, “directionally correct” goals that move you generally toward a larger outcome, rather than waiting for a perfect, long-term plan. For example, if your long-term goal is to lead teams, a directionally correct short-term goal could be to lead a single project as a tech lead. This approach allows for learning and reflection without the paralysis of perfectionism.

Finally, Cuttrell offers practical heuristics. If you’re completely stuck, imagine your performance review in six months and set goals around what your manager (or you, if self-evaluating) will care about. He also discusses common pitfalls: goals that are too abstract (not tractable) or that misjudge capacity (too easy or too hard, leading to disengagement). The ideal goal is challenging but sustainable, with a realistic chance of success, requiring focus and the ability to say “no” to other things, but not leading to burnout. He encourages listeners to proactively start conversations with managers about career growth and defining success, as this can directly yield a list of actionable goals.

Recommendations

Communities

  • Developer Tea Discord — Jonathan invites listeners to join the free Developer Tea Discord community at developert.com/discord to discuss goal-setting and connect with other listeners.

Frameworks

  • SMART Goals — Mentioned as a common framework (Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Time-bound). Cuttrell notes these are good checks but emphasizes that relevance (‘R’) is the most critical factor, as a goal can meet all other criteria but still be irrelevant.

Topic Timeline

  • 00:00:00 — Introduction: The Critical Importance of Goals — Jonathan Cuttrell introduces the episode by stating that a well-positioned goal could be the most important thing in your career, especially if you lack a career coach or manager. He explains that his goal for the show is to help developers find clarity, perspective, and purpose, and that goals are fundamental to achieving all three. He positions goals as essential tools for career direction.
  • 00:01:26 — The Struggle with Goal-Setting and Relevance — Cuttrell acknowledges that many people, including himself, have struggled with setting goals due to lack of practice and poor managerial systems. He mentions frameworks like SMART goals but argues that the most important letter is ‘R’ for Relevant. If a goal isn’t relevant, all other criteria are meaningless. The core question he aims to address is: how do you decide what goal to set in the first place?
  • 00:05:12 — The Goal of the Goal: Decision-Making and Focus — Cuttrell defines the “goal of the goal” as giving you a way to make decisions about what to do. It’s a clarifying, prioritizing, and focusing tool. He warns that without a personal goal, someone else will dictate your time. He clarifies that he’s not advocating for disregarding assigned work, but that if your only goal is to output what’s asked, you’ll struggle to make the career changes you desire, as no one else is primarily responsible for your skill development.
  • 00:07:56 — Starting Small with Directionally Correct Goals — For those unsure how to start, Cuttrell advises beginning with relatively small goals focused on outcomes. Instead of fixating on a perfect long-term goal (a ‘lagging indicator’ like making more money), set a smaller, ‘directionally correct’ goal that moves you generally toward it. He uses the example of wanting to lead teams: a directionally correct goal would be to lead a single project as a tech lead. This allows for reflection and course-correction without the pressure of perfection.
  • 00:13:26 — A Simple Heuristic: Your Boss’s Evaluation — Cuttrell offers a simple starting heuristic: imagine sitting in your boss’s seat reviewing your performance in six months. Set goals around what they will care about. If you want to do well in your role and on your performance review, this is a effective generic strategy. He suggests being honest with your manager, asking how they judge success and what makes a great engineer in their eyes, as this conversation can directly yield goal ideas.
  • 00:17:14 — Recognizing Stretch and Avoiding Pitfalls — Cuttrell explains that most goals fail for two simple reasons: they are too abstract (not tractable/actionable) or they misjudge capacity, leading to disengagement. Underestimating capacity makes a goal too easy and unchallenging; overestimating it (e.g., aiming to double throughput) sets an unrealistic, demoralizing target. The ideal goal has a challenging but realistic chance of success (e.g., ~60%), requires focus and saying ‘no,’ but is sustainable and won’t cause burnout.
  • 00:22:04 — Proactive Conversations and Consistent Practice — Cuttrell reiterates the basic heuristic: think about how you’re evaluated, what success looks like, and the gap between you and success. If you don’t know, proactively ‘hound’ your manager or the arbiter of your promotions/raises. Ask what a ‘home run’ looks like. Frame this as an opportunity for you to make a huge impact, which managers appreciate. Take the resulting list, refine it, and act. He concludes that goal-setting is about making small, consistent bets (milestone goals) on the way to larger outcomes, not defining your life’s purpose.

Episode Info

  • Podcast: Developer Tea
  • Author: Jonathan Cutrell
  • Category: Technology Business Careers Society & Culture
  • Published: 2025-07-29T07:00:00Z
  • Duration: 00:26:13

References

Podcast Info

Transcript

[00:00:00] you need a goal if you don’t have a career coach or a manager who is talking with you about your

[00:00:17] career development then this five minutes may be the most important five minutes of a podcast that

[00:00:26] you ever listen to not because i have some special opinion that um that is unique to me

[00:00:31] but instead because a goal a well-positioned goal could be the most important thing that you have

[00:00:44] in your career we’re going to talk a little bit about why that’s the case um in today’s episode

[00:00:50] my name is jonathan cuttrell this is developer t my goal on the show is to help driven developers

[00:00:56] like you find clarity perspective and purpose in their careers goals hit all three of those things

[00:01:02] goals hit clarity they hit perspective and they had purpose especially clarity if nothing else

[00:01:12] a goal provides clarity but good goals also speak to perspective and purpose

[00:01:21] now a lot of people

[00:01:26] myself included have struggled in the past with setting goals and a lot of the reason for this is

[00:01:34] because we don’t really practice with setting our own goals very much in our lives before we get

[00:01:41] into our careers and very often managers uh don’t do this very well either all right i’m a manager i

[00:01:52] know this uh there’s no uh no good

[00:01:56] system that i’ve ever been a part of at any company that does a good job of ensuring that

[00:02:02] people have clear goals okay you may have heard all of the acronyms like smart goals uh

[00:02:10] those those concepts those frameworks are good um you know there’s i say those i mean some of

[00:02:18] those frameworks are good don’t go use everyone out there and think that it’s going to fix your

[00:02:23] problem though

[00:02:26] right uh a smart goal we’ll just go through this this one framework um to kind of explain what i

[00:02:34] mean there a smart goal is specific measurable uh i think it’s attainable um it is it is relevant

[00:02:45] and it’s time bound right those that’s what the smart smart stands for and smart goal

[00:02:51] and uh certainly those things are good checks

[00:02:56] right those are good things to ensure that your goal you know kind of meets certain criteria for

[00:03:03] example if you don’t have a measurable goal it’s hard to know when you’ve met it that can result in

[00:03:07] some uh some bad behavior around your goal right a never-ending goal for example right there’s

[00:03:14] one letter in there that a lot of people get lost on relevant the r in smart how do i know if my goal

[00:03:26] is relevant how do i know if it’s the right goal how do i even determine a goal in the first place

[00:03:35] that’s kind of the the core of that right um you know if it’s specific and measurable and

[00:03:42] actionable and time bound none of that matters if it’s irrelevant the most important thing that

[00:03:49] you can have in your goal is relevance right so uh that’s why i say there’s there’s frameworks

[00:03:54] there’s certainly nothing wrong with that but if it’s not relevant then it’s irrelevant and if it’s

[00:03:56] but i want to focus in on this one specific factor which is how do i decide what goal to set

[00:04:04] in the first place i want to demystify or kind of uh take the i don’t know the the magic out of

[00:04:14] goals um you know it feels like this big idea this big thing that we’re going to set five-year

[00:04:22] goals or that we’re going to you know decide our future

[00:04:26] uh in some ways you know we’re kind of programmed if you went to college and you had a degree

[00:04:31] then choosing your major right kind of felt similar to this um you know we imagine that

[00:04:37] choosing our major was would somehow solidify our direction in life and that that we know

[00:04:43] we’re kind of choosing our path forever most people uh probably know that that’s not the case

[00:04:50] in in in most cases your major did not decide uh you know the the rest of your life

[00:04:56] and your career and every other step after that of course it can impact it right so that’s why

[00:05:03] it’s important to pick goals that make sense but the goal of the goal right what why do we care

[00:05:12] about having goals in the first place why do we care about creating clarity in our work in the

[00:05:16] first place the goal of the goal is to give you a way to make a decision about what to do

[00:05:24] um this is a

[00:05:26] clarifying prioritizing uh focusing effort right when you walk into work uh

[00:05:35] if you don’t have a goal someone else is going to take advantage of your time

[00:05:40] that’s not their fault they’re not doing anything wrong uh but they’re going to give you something

[00:05:47] to do and we might believe in my opinion wrongly that our goal is to do something wrong

[00:05:56] as a software engineer uh this this is kind of a a backwards way of thinking

[00:06:05] right that that your goal is just to do the work that’s handed to you to finish the work that’s

[00:06:10] assigned to you now don’t take me wrong uh if you are getting work assigned to you and you’re

[00:06:17] having a discussion with your manager that hey is this the right work for me

[00:06:21] you know uh should i be working on this versus something else

[00:06:26] all of those things are in line then yes of course uh doing work that’s assigned to you i’m not

[00:06:31] telling you to go and and you know uh disregard that uh that’s a fast way to lose your job

[00:06:37] what i am saying is if your goal is just to output if your goal is only to do the things

[00:06:49] that are being asked of you to do then the things that you care about in your career

[00:06:56] the kinds of changes you want to make in your career whether that’s growing into a new role

[00:07:01] growing into a new domain maybe uh gaining new skills right it’s going to be hard to do

[00:07:07] nobody else around you is is working to uh ensure that your skills are being developed

[00:07:16] necessarily right maybe if you have a good manager they’re working with you on that but

[00:07:21] my guess is if you have a good manager who’s working with you on that then you’re going to

[00:07:26] working with you on your skill development they’re doing it through the lens of setting

[00:07:29] good goals with you okay so goals that the whole point of a goal is to have a focus

[00:07:36] a way of focusing your effort so if you are sitting here and you’re like okay i hear you

[00:07:42] i’ve heard talk you know people have talked to me about goals i know about smart framework i know

[00:07:47] about you know all these other ways all the reasoning why but i still don’t know how to

[00:07:51] set a goal i don’t know you know what to write down on the paper

[00:07:56] my advice for you is to start relatively small start relatively small and focus primarily

[00:08:05] on the kinds of goals um or or rather on the output the outcome of the goal

[00:08:14] so if you’re if you’re stuck trying to figure out what a goal should be

[00:08:21] instead focus on the things that you want

[00:08:23] what do you want to be

[00:08:26] maybe you want um so so really what we’re saying is is kind of uh focusing on outcomes or why

[00:08:36] right why why do i care about changing anything i want to make more money that’s a simple one

[00:08:45] right um i want to you know uh learn this particular skill or maybe i want to be doing

[00:08:53] this particular thing and so i’m going to start with a goal and i’m going to start with a goal

[00:08:56] uh we often mistake that the outcome is the goal that we imagine that some kind of future state

[00:09:05] that we set that up as our goal often in the distance making more money is our goal

[00:09:11] this can be considered a type of goal but it is a it is typically a lagging indicator a lagging goal

[00:09:21] all right so in other words if if you could just go and do something that’s not a lagging goal

[00:09:26] do something to make more money um then you would probably do that right so your goal

[00:09:31] of uh wanting to make more money there’s a bunch of stuff in between you and that

[00:09:36] so how do you get there right so the the point of this kind of small goal

[00:09:46] is to take a step in the right direction and when i say right direction the thing that most people

[00:09:52] get caught up on is believing that right direction is the right direction is the right direction is the

[00:09:56] has to be perfect direction and so instead of taking a direction in generally the right

[00:10:02] direction right or instead of taking a step uh you know towards the right direction they take

[00:10:08] no steps because they’re afraid that they’re going to go the wrong direction this is a mistake right

[00:10:14] if you set a goal and you set the goal to be uh you know the phrase that we use is directionally

[00:10:22] correct right it doesn’t have to be perfect it doesn’t have to be perfect it doesn’t have to be

[00:10:26] have to take you exactly in the right direction but it takes you generally in the right direction

[00:10:30] so for example um let’s say that your goal or or your outcome goal your long-term goal

[00:10:37] is you want to lead teams a directionally correct goal might be to lead a project right a goal that

[00:10:45] you may have is to uh to lead a project with a team as as a tech lead as as some kind of

[00:10:54] uh technical plan

[00:10:56] capacity right you want to be held responsible for the architecture okay that’s the goal that

[00:11:03] you have now right your long-term goal is to lead teams your long-term goal is to maybe to become a

[00:11:10] manager but your shorter term goal is one project all right this doesn’t necessarily take you

[00:11:18] exactly in the direction of leading teams but it’s directionally correct

[00:11:23] right so uh

[00:11:26] you know a directionally incorrect would be uh something like you know uh picking up all of the

[00:11:33] bug tickets for your team maybe uh you you could probably make an argument for that being a fine

[00:11:41] goal too right this this is the interesting thing is when we set goals it gives us to focus right

[00:11:47] it helps us uh kind of wrap our actions around a specific direction and then perhaps the most

[00:11:56] interesting thing is it gives us something to reflect on okay so uh if if you are a tech lead

[00:12:02] and uh you’re assigned to to this tech lead role and you get a bunch of interactions where

[00:12:09] you’re working directly with other engineers and you get a chance to do a little bit of mentorship

[00:12:15] maybe now you can reflect and say okay that goal i met that goal did it take me closer or further

[00:12:24] away from my long-term goal or did it take me further away from my long-term goal or did it take me

[00:12:26] closer to my long-term outcome that i care about it was that the right kind of goal okay yes it

[00:12:31] sounds like it was or no it seems like i didn’t get any closer to my outcome goal great this small

[00:12:38] goal has not uh put you off by the wayside excuse me um it hasn’t put you off by the wayside it

[00:12:49] uh you know waylaid your career instead it’s given you a new kind of

[00:12:56] directional uh input right some steering but your your goal construction here

[00:13:03] is focused on taking you in the directionally correct uh direction right so it’s less

[00:13:13] important that you get exactly the right goal in place now maybe you’re still sitting here you’re

[00:13:19] okay yes i hear you but i still am not sure what my goal should be here’s a very simple

[00:13:26] and this works for most people try to imagine sitting in your boss’s seat

[00:13:35] and reviewing your performance in six months from now what are the things that you care about

[00:13:41] if you don’t know you probably will benefit from finding out okay but if you do know

[00:13:49] the things that your boss is going to care about might be good things to set goals around

[00:13:56] this is very generic advice of course right um this advice will help you grow in your career

[00:14:01] most likely because it will help you get better evaluations most likely right so it’s very generic

[00:14:08] advice but um if you’re if you’re struggling to figure out okay i you know i i just generally i

[00:14:14] want to do good at my job right uh i want to be good in my role i want my boss to think that i’m

[00:14:20] good at what i do that’s a pretty common uh kind of career

[00:14:26] posture that you don’t want to do poorly on your next performance review great so now let’s set a

[00:14:32] goal to make sure that doesn’t happen right so your goal is going to be focused especially on

[00:14:39] how your boss will interview or will uh will evaluate you right why why not focus on that

[00:14:46] uh if your boss is going to evaluate you on let’s say your total throughput and uh he’s he’s he or

[00:14:56] is is determining your total throughput by looking at the number of times that you ship to production

[00:15:00] set a goal around shipping to production there’s nobody who’s going to keep you from doing that

[00:15:07] right um there’s nobody who’s who’s going to stop you from doing that

[00:15:11] uh and you can be very honest with your manager most likely unless they’re uh you know a difficult

[00:15:21] person to work with or you have some other reason not to be honest with them

[00:15:26] you can be very honest with your manager and say you know i’m i’m in the process of setting goals

[00:15:31] for myself so that i grow i specifically want to set goals that are related to my performance

[00:15:38] how do you judge it what kind of factors do you consider what makes a great engineer in your eyes

[00:15:45] what do you care about what seek that feedback with your manager right it’s very possible that

[00:15:52] your manager is going to look at you and you say the thing that i care about

[00:15:56] for this quarter is shipping that project in fact i would say probably

[00:16:00] eight or nine out of ten managers that is actually what they care about so uh if you can set a goal

[00:16:08] that helps achieve those larger organizational goals and you can explain how you did it

[00:16:13] that’s an it’s another huge career win for you right so uh focus on if you have no idea how to

[00:16:20] set a goal if you have you know zero experience you don’t really have any clear outcomes that

[00:16:26] you just want to do well in your career focus specifically on setting goals around how your

[00:16:32] boss is going to evaluate you six months or a year from now right um if you don’t have a boss that

[00:16:40] can clearly articulate how he’s going to evaluate you how she’s going to evaluate you

[00:16:44] do it for yourself imagine how you would evaluate you if you were looking for a great engineer maybe

[00:16:51] maybe you’re um you know interviewing engineers

[00:16:56] what kind of experience what kind of uh actions what kind of values are you looking for

[00:17:01] these are all kind of basis uh topics for you to set goals around

[00:17:07] a very important thing to be able to do when you’re setting goals is to recognize

[00:17:14] where the stretch is okay when are you um reaching your limit

[00:17:23] um most goals

[00:17:26] uh most goals tend not to be met for one of two very simple reasons okay

[00:17:33] one the goal is to abstract right it’s not tractable exactly what to do

[00:17:43] so it’s not actionable it’s not clear what to do to meet the goal remember we said my goal is to

[00:17:50] make more money but how do i do that well i don’t really know and so i’m going to stop here right

[00:17:56] so it’s not tractable uh the other reason is that you’ve either over or underestimated your

[00:18:03] capacity enough that you become disengaged over or under can cause disengagement so if you

[00:18:12] underestimate your capacity right if you set a goal that is so easy to meet that it’s not even

[00:18:20] a challenge you may actually disengage from that goal entirely because it doesn’t feel

[00:18:26] like a challenge it doesn’t feel like you’re accomplishing anything right maybe you maybe

[00:18:30] you accomplish it maybe you don’t um but it’s not a challenge it doesn’t feel like an accomplishment

[00:18:36] doesn’t really feel like you’ve met a goal per se right um so that’s one reason and that’s a

[00:18:45] preferable reason over the second one okay i guess we’re on like the the third reason technically

[00:18:51] here but uh over subscribing right

[00:18:56] a goal that ultimately is demoralizing you’ve set your stretch goal to double your throughput

[00:19:04] for example the likelihood that you’re going to double that output that you have as an engineer

[00:19:11] is extremely low it’s extremely low so uh meeting that goal is unlikely and when you actually start

[00:19:19] trying to do that you’re likely to recognize that you set an unrealistic goal for yourself

[00:19:25] and then you disengage

[00:19:26] because no matter how much effort you put forward you’re going to get limited by uh you know what is

[00:19:34] even possible right so you’ll hit that limit and then you become demoralized and then you quit the

[00:19:42] goal right you quit actually trying it’s much more effective to have a goal where you have

[00:19:50] let’s say a 60 chance of of success

[00:19:56] something along those lines right i’m not really sure what the exact number would be there are

[00:20:01] actually studies about this so you can go find out what the number is if you do find out come

[00:20:05] let me know okay uh but some percent chance some confidence chance that you’re going to succeed

[00:20:12] that is not 100 that is not even 90 but it’s also not zero or 10 right you want something that is

[00:20:24] challenging that you have a real chance of succeeding and you’re going to succeed and you’re

[00:20:26] going to have a real chance of failure right but you also have a really a real shot at success

[00:20:33] it’s going to take hard work it’s going to take uh focus it’s going to take saying no to things

[00:20:40] remember this is the whole point of having the goal in the first place is so you have

[00:20:43] a framework to help you focus to help you say no to something okay so setting your goal you should

[00:20:53] need to say no to something you

[00:20:56] should need to focus to be able to achieve it you shouldn’t have to

[00:21:02] uh you know sacrifice every night and every weekend to achieve your goal you probably

[00:21:10] shouldn’t have to you know perform some kind of uh crazy out of bounds thing that you wouldn’t

[00:21:19] want to do on a regular basis that’s not a sustainable way to set a goal okay your goals

[00:21:24] should be set in a way that you’re not going to be able to achieve your goal you should be able to

[00:21:26] set a way that you’re not going to be able to achieve your goal you should be able to

[00:21:26] requires you to focus but it’s sustainable you’re not burning out trying to meet your own goals

[00:21:31] if you do that you will end up quitting at some point or another maybe not on this goal

[00:21:36] but on the next one right it’s not sustainable so set your goals to be challenging but not

[00:21:45] debilitating that middle ground is is critical okay and ensuring that they have tractability

[00:21:52] once again looking at

[00:21:56] the reason you’re looking at what is the thing that you’re trying to accomplish here and if you

[00:22:04] have nothing else to go on the most basic heuristic is to think about how you’re evaluated think about

[00:22:10] what does success look like how do i achieve success and what is the gap between me and

[00:22:16] success if you don’t know how to achieve success this is where you uh you know really track down

[00:22:22] your hound your manager hound whoever determines

[00:22:26] your successful path whoever is uh you know the arbiter of whether you get a promotion whether you

[00:22:32] get a raise whoever is responsible for that kind of um you know gating on your career go and talk

[00:22:39] to them ask them what is it that you see that needs to change in order for you to put me up

[00:22:46] for that in order for you to you know suggest a raise for me what is a home run what what looks

[00:22:54] like a huge success

[00:22:56] most of the time managers would like to talk about that but they can’t find the perfect time to do it

[00:23:02] you know sometimes the the day-to-day gets in the way of talking about the bigger picture

[00:23:06] you start the conversation right if you own that conversation if you say you know what i want to

[00:23:13] spend our next one-on-one talking about career growth and about setting goals your manager will

[00:23:18] will not only uh will very likely appreciate that right they’ll they’ll very will will very

[00:23:24] likely appreciate it especially if you’re a manager and you’re a manager and you’re a manager

[00:23:26] if you frame it in through the lens of you know this needs to be a win for you the manager right

[00:23:32] not just hey tell me all of the ways that i can succeed right that’s that’s not what they’re

[00:23:39] looking to do that feels more like a challenge bring this as an opportunity hey direct me tell

[00:23:45] me where to go tell me how i can make a huge impact right that’s what they’re looking you know

[00:23:50] managers really do want that um if you come with that conversation

[00:23:56] you’re going to have a list of goals just handed to you you may have to go and refine them make

[00:24:02] them fit into the smart you know framework or whatever but you’ll have a huge list that you

[00:24:08] can go and act on right away take that list evaluate it see if it’s taking you where you

[00:24:14] want to go in your career right maybe there’s a bigger thing to think about here but directionally

[00:24:19] correct is all you’re really looking for you’re not really this is not about setting your you

[00:24:24] know life purpose you’re not really setting your you know life purpose you’re not really setting

[00:24:26] your you know life purpose you’re not really setting your you know life purpose you’re not really

[00:24:26] we said this is going to help you with your purpose it will but this is about making a

[00:24:31] bunch of small bets a bunch of milestone goals on your way to your larger goal you can make

[00:24:39] mistakes with these goals you can still meet the goal it’ll still help you in your career it’ll

[00:24:44] still probably get you things that you want in your career but it doesn’t have to be a perfect

[00:24:48] goal it’s not going to define your long-term success consistency and doing this over and

[00:24:55] over again and i think that’s something that’s going to help you in your career it’ll still

[00:24:56] and over will thank you so much for listening to developer t i hope you enjoyed this episode i hope

[00:25:01] that you are going to be energized by this i hope that uh you will evaluate self-evaluate whether

[00:25:07] you have clear goals sitting in front of you or if you need to go and make them and i encourage

[00:25:13] you to go make them right away um there’s nothing to stop you from doing that now don’t wait till

[00:25:19] the next performance cycle don’t wait for your manager start on it on your own right go do it

[00:25:25] now i’d love to hear about your goal setting if you want to join the developer t discord community

[00:25:30] head over to developer t.com slash discord uh joining that is totally free you can always join

[00:25:36] as a listener of this show completely free other listeners of this show are there as well

[00:25:42] if you enjoyed this episode go and leave a review in itunes of course now we are

[00:25:47] starting to publish these on on youtube we don’t have a ton up yet we haven’t done

[00:25:55] historical recording video recording yet still getting some of the kinks worked out

[00:25:59] but you should be able to see this on youtube shortly after we record it thank you so much

[00:26:04] for listening and until next time enjoy your tea

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