Scott Galloway Says Men Should “Protect, Provide, and Procreate”

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Summary

Scott Galloway, NYU professor and author of ‘Notes on Being a Man,’ joins Henry Blodget to discuss the crisis of masculinity. Galloway argues that young men are falling behind on almost every dimension—education, work, and romantic attachment—leading to a generation that is increasingly obese, angry, and prone to conspiracy theories. He frames this as a societal danger, citing that the most unstable countries have a preponderance of ‘broke, lonely men.’

Galloway’s central thesis is that men should embrace the roles of protector, provider, and procreator. He clarifies that this isn’t about blaming women or advocating for a 1950s regression, but about men finding purpose and meaning. He acknowledges the legitimate criticism that his framework might overemphasize economic success and finding a mate as the ultimate goals, and that it may not adequately address men who aren’t focused on ‘winning capitalism.’

The conversation delves into the complexities of modern partnerships. Both Galloway and Blodget explore what happens when women out-earn their male partners, the data showing increased divorce rates and ED drug use in such scenarios, and the need to expand the definition of ‘providing’ to include emotional labor and support. Galloway stresses that being a provider can mean ‘getting out of the way’ of a more successful partner and contributing in non-traditional ways.

Galloway shares personal stories about his mother’s pivotal role in his life after his father left, illustrating the importance of support systems. He concludes by advocating for policy solutions—like raising the minimum wage, universal childcare, and ending the intergenerational transfer of wealth from young to old—to alleviate the economic anxiety disproportionately hurting young men and to give more ‘unremarkable’ people a chance to succeed.

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Recommendations

Books

• Notes on Being a Man — Scott Galloway’s bestselling book, described as a bold, frank, heartbreaking, and inspiring memoir filled with tough love and life advice for men and boys.

People

• Richard Reeves — Cited by Galloway for the saying: ‘You want someone invaluable in a shipwreck and acceptable at a dance.’
• Paul Fine — A friend’s father-in-law Galloway writes about in his book, highlighted as an example of masculinity through his role as a full-time caregiver for his ailing wife later in life.

Policy-Ideas

• *$25MinimumWage\ast —Gallowayadvocatesraisingthefederalminimumwageto$25 an hour to address economic inequality and help young people, particularly men, become economically viable.
• Universal Childcare — Presented as a solution to reduce economic anxiety in households, which is a primary cause of divorce and disproportionately affects men’s sense of responsibility.
• End Intergenerational Wealth Transfer — Galloway argues for stopping policies like the mortgage interest deduction and reforming Social Security to end what he sees as a massive transfer of wealth from young to old.

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Topic Timeline

• 00:00:00 — Introduction to the Crisis of Young Men — Henry Blodget introduces Scott Galloway and his book ‘Notes on Being a Man.’ The opening frames the central issue: young men are falling behind, not attaching to work, school, or romantic partners. Galloway’s controversial advice that men should ‘protect, provide, and procreate’ is presented, which has stirred debate about traditional gender roles.
• 00:03:51 — Defining a Man’s Job vs. a Woman’s Job — Blodget poses a direct question from his female listeners: if a man’s job is to protect, provide, and procreate, what is a woman’s job? Galloway acknowledges the pushback, agreeing that these are attributes of being a better human. He discusses different nuances of protection, citing men’s disproportionate receipt of valor awards, and argues that while attributes aren’t sequestered by gender, biological tendencies create different leanings.
• 00:08:23 — The Dangers of Unattached, Unemployed Men — Galloway lays out alarming statistics: men die by suicide at four times the rate of women, one in seven men is a NEET (not in education, employment, or training), and 63% of men under 30 have given up on dating. He argues that men who wake up at 30 obese, angry, and disconnected become ‘shitty citizens’ and are easily weaponized by nationalists, creating societal instability.
• 00:17:59 — Redefining ‘Provider’ in Modern Partnerships — Blodget challenges whether the solution is for men to simply out-earn their wives or if it’s acceptable for a man to be a supportive ‘trad wife’ figure. Galloway agrees men should get out of the basement but must recognize different forms of providing, including emotional and logistical labor. He shares that his wife out-earned him when she worked at Goldman Sachs, and he took on more domestic duties, framing it as a team effort.
• 00:30:05 — What Attracts Women: Resources, Intellect, Kindness — Galloway breaks down research on what attracts women to men: 1) the ability to signal resources (current or future), 2) intellect (often communicated through humor), and 3) kindness. He emphasizes kindness as the most underleveraged ‘weapon’ in dating, describing it as a muscle that can be developed through practice, unlike humor which can’t be forced.
• 00:35:55 — Dating Rituals and Why Men Should Pay — Galloway makes a provocative claim: on a date, the man should pay. He tells his sons a woman you split the check with will never kiss you. He justifies this by citing the biological asymmetry in relationships: women have a shorter fertility window and greater downside risk from sex, so men, who benefit more from relationships, should demonstrate commitment and valor by paying.
• 00:47:19 — Economic Solutions and ‘Female-Coded’ Jobs — The discussion turns to economic policies. They discuss the decline of ‘manly’ manufacturing jobs and the growth in ‘female-coded’ sectors like healthcare. Galloway argues for degendering these fields and paying them more. His primary solution is to stop the massive intergenerational wealth transfer from young to old via policies like raising the minimum wage to $25, which would disproportionately help struggling young men.
• 00:53:31 — The Role of Galloway’s Mother and Male Role Models — Galloway shares the story of his mother, a single immigrant who saved him after his father left. While celebrating her, he cites research showing boys in single-parent homes have worse outcomes than girls when they lose a male role model, emphasizing the importance of male mentorship. He credits government assistance (Pell Grants, accessible college) for his success, which he sees as under attack today.
• 00:59:34 — Appealing Rejection and America’s Bet on the Unremarkable — Galloway recounts how he appealed his UCLA rejection and begged professors to change his F’s to D’s so he could graduate. He frames this as a lesson in not accepting authority’s first decision. He laments that America has shifted from betting on unremarkable people to trying to create a superclass, and that the accessible, affordable education that gave him a chance is now gone.

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Episode Info

• Podcast: Solutions with Henry Blodget
• Author: Vox Media Podcast Network
• Category: Technology Business
• Published: 2025-12-08T09:00:00Z
• Duration: 01:06:29

References

• URL PocketCasts: https://pocketcasts.com/podcast/9c941ed0-56cc-013e-8b75-0e680d801ff9/episode/eeda10e7-4d44-4076-89b2-aa787711302f
• Episode UUID: eeda10e7-4d44-4076-89b2-aa787711302f

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Podcast Info

• Name: Solutions with Henry Blodget
• Type: episodic
• UUID: 9c941ed0-56cc-013e-8b75-0e680d801ff9

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Transcript

[00:00:00] The criticism I choke on a little bit when I know people haven’t read the book is that they say, okay, here’s another dude blaming women for men’s problems. Men on almost every dimension are just falling behind. Young men are not attaching to work, not attaching to school, not attaching to romantic partners, and they wake up at 30 obese, angry, more prone to conspiracy theory, more prone to blaming immigrants for their economic problems, more prone to blaming women for their romantic problems, and they become, quite frankly, shitty citizens.

[00:00:30] The most unstable, violent countries in the world have a preponderance of one thing, and that is broke, lonely men.

[00:00:40] America is having a masculinity crisis.

[00:00:44] Men are struggling with self-esteem and purpose, and this, arguably, is causing all kinds of problems.

[00:00:50] Scott Galloway, the NYU professor and host of the excellent Pivot and other podcasts, has written a best-selling book on this topic.

[00:00:58] It’s called Notes.

[00:01:00] On Being a Man.

[00:01:01] The book is mostly an inspiring memoir about how Scott succeeded, despite being dealt a tough hand, in part because of his amazing mother.

[00:01:10] But Scott also urges men to get off their phones and get out of the house.

[00:01:15] Specifically, he says, they should protect, provide, and procreate.

[00:01:21] This might sound like Scott is advocating for a return to traditional gender roles.

[00:01:25] As a result, he has stirred the pot.

[00:01:28] So we talked about…

[00:01:30] I hope you enjoy our discussion about the solutions to the plight of the modern man.

[00:01:35] Scott, great to see you.

[00:01:36] Thank you so much for doing this, and congratulations on Notes.

[00:01:39] On Being a Man, which is now a bestseller, I understand.

[00:01:43] Thanks, Henry.

[00:01:44] It’s always good to see you.

[00:01:45] It’s been a while.

[00:01:45] You too.

[00:01:46] So just to start off, so we’re going to talk about the book today.

[00:01:49] There are lots of other things we could talk about, but we’re going to focus on the book.

[00:01:53] And I will say, this is an amazing book.

[00:01:55] And I read it over the weekend.

[00:01:56] It is bold.

[00:01:57] It’s frank.

[00:01:58] It is heartbreaking.

[00:02:00] It is inspiring.

[00:02:01] And it is filled with great advice.

[00:02:04] And I would say not just for boys and men, but for anybody.

[00:02:08] Lots of tough love and wonderful life advice.

[00:02:11] Also, a surprise to me, it’s really very much a memoir, which I didn’t realize.

[00:02:15] And I, having read it now, I have even more admiration for you and all you’ve accomplished

[00:02:20] and your generosity and what you do.

[00:02:23] And I have incredible admiration for some of the amazing women in your life, in particular

[00:02:28] your mother.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:29] Thank you.

[00:02:30] Thank you.

[00:02:30] Thank you.

[00:02:30] She deserves a gold medal and a purple heart.

[00:02:33] So I just want to, before we start, thank you for sharing all that.

[00:02:36] It is incredibly moving.

[00:02:38] Well, let me just say, I’m really enjoying this podcast so far.

[00:02:42] Yeah, it means a lot coming from you, Henry.

[00:02:44] And the one thing that you said that surprises most people is it’s not an attempt to cosplay

[00:02:51] an endocrinologist or an adolescent psychiatrist or a gender studies professor.

[00:02:55] This is a lot about where I’ve gotten it wrong and what I’ve learned.

[00:02:59] And where I found purpose and meaning and my quest to become a better man.

[00:03:04] But a lot of it is, quite frankly, just where I screwed up and where I got it wrong.

[00:03:09] And you’re incredibly open about that, which is very helpful for all of us who have screwed

[00:03:14] up and gotten it wrong and had to learn.

[00:03:16] So thank you.

[00:03:17] And so given that you’ve talked about it a lot and the book lays this all out, I figured

[00:03:21] what we could really do starting first is talk about some of the questions that you

[00:03:25] don’t address in the book.

[00:03:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] When I brought up that we were going to talk, I had a lot of smart women in particular

[00:03:32] immediately say, well, you’ve got to ask him this.

[00:03:34] So to get right to it, you say that a man’s job is to protect, provide, and procreate.

[00:03:43] And that sounds very traditional, definition of manhood.

[00:03:46] So if a man’s job is to protect, provide, and procreate, what’s a woman’s job?

[00:03:51] Okay.

[00:03:52] That’s a great question.

[00:03:53] I think a lot of the pushback I’ve received, it’s pretty…

[00:03:57] Legitimate is, are you really describing what it means to be a better human?

[00:04:03] And that women protect, I would argue that in many instances, women have an easier time

[00:04:08] protecting through kind of emotional labor or nurturing or being more in touch with how

[00:04:16] people are feeling.

[00:04:18] My son is home right now, and my wife’s ability to say something’s wrong or to hear when they

[00:04:26] were little, them getting up in the morning.

[00:04:27] She just…

[00:04:27] I just had those skills.

[00:04:28] I did not.

[00:04:29] At the same time, I think it’s different nuance around protection.

[00:04:34] So men are…

[00:04:36] There’s 81 or 80…

[00:04:38] There’s an award called the Carnegie Award where they give people an award for risking

[00:04:43] their own lives to save someone else’s who they don’t know.

[00:04:45] Literally, they’re running into a burning house award.

[00:04:48] And every year, they give about 80.

[00:04:50] And on average, 75 go to men.

[00:04:53] Some people call men reckless and more risk aggressive, but it also can be valor.

[00:04:57] So I think this notion of immediately trying to establish prosperity and be a provider

[00:05:04] needs to move to protection.

[00:05:06] And I think men can offer a different type of protection.

[00:05:10] Some of it…

[00:05:12] Look, let me be crude.

[00:05:15] I think when Russian soldiers come pouring over the border in Ukraine, you want some

[00:05:18] big dick energy.

[00:05:20] And I don’t think there’s anything wrong.

[00:05:23] I think that men’s propensity to action, which in many instances,

[00:05:27] can be framed as reckless.

[00:05:29] Sometimes it can be bold and it can be, you know,

[00:05:33] valorous or whatever the term is.

[00:05:35] I love what Richard Reeves says.

[00:05:36] You want someone invaluable and a shipwreck and acceptable at a dance.

[00:05:40] But I do think a woman provides a lot of those things.

[00:05:45] Also, and this feels like a land acknowledgement, but I believe it.

[00:05:48] I don’t think these attributes are sequestered to people born as men or women.

[00:05:52] I think a lot of women demonstrate wonderful masculinity.

[00:05:54] I think a lot of men demonstrate wonderful femininity.

[00:05:57] My closest friends tend to be more feminine in nature.

[00:06:01] I like men.

[00:06:02] My close friends kind of take care of me.

[00:06:04] But I would say that there is a bit of a difference in that as people, the 95% of people

[00:06:10] born as binary are going to have an easier time leaning into certain feminine and masculine

[00:06:14] attributes.

[00:06:15] And on the provider’s standpoint, I think it’s wonderful that women are making more

[00:06:20] money.

[00:06:21] We should do nothing to get in the way of that.

[00:06:22] But we also have to have an honest conversation that society and men themselves,

[00:06:27] and women’s sexual interest, is directly linked to a man’s ability to signal resources.

[00:06:33] And I don’t care how many subscriptions to The Atlantic and The New York Times you have,

[00:06:36] it’s going to be several thousand years before we probably figure that out.

[00:06:39] Does that mean we shouldn’t embrace women in the workplace?

[00:06:42] Does that mean they shouldn’t have the same rights as anybody else?

[00:06:44] No.

[00:06:45] But there has been some knock-on effects around men flailing economically, young men.

[00:06:51] And that is, if you look at, I’m turning this into a word salad, if you look at,

[00:06:56] because I’m feeling defensive, because that’s what I’m saying.

[00:06:57] It’s a really good question.

[00:06:58] But if you look at married couples, when the woman in the relationship starts making more

[00:07:04] money than the man, the rate of divorce, the likelihood of divorce doubles, and the use

[00:07:07] of ED drugs triples.

[00:07:10] So I do think there are certain attributes around the nuance of protection and providing

[00:07:14] and procreating that are different than a woman’s.

[00:07:18] I think a woman enjoys procreating as much as a man, but men, quite frankly, are just

[00:07:23] less choosy.

[00:07:24] And something that has worked for a long time is that men feel.

[00:07:27] And I think that’s what I’m trying to say, is that women have an obligation to spread

[00:07:28] their seed to the four corners of the earth, and women have an obligation to put up a much

[00:07:31] finer filter and pick the strongest, smartest, and fastest seed.

[00:07:34] That is the basis of evolution.

[00:07:36] It’s the reason why your kids will be smarter and taller than you, Henry.

[00:07:39] And what we have is this general illusion that we approach sexuality the same way, and

[00:07:47] that to assume that we approach it in different ways is somehow sexist.

[00:07:50] It’s not true.

[00:07:51] 80% of women still expect men to initiate romantic contact.

[00:07:55] And men have received mixed messages.

[00:07:57] And some men, quite frankly, young men, aren’t leveling up and being as attractive as they

[00:08:03] should or want to be, given their expectations around forming a relationship.

[00:08:07] Long-winded way of saying, it’s an accurate question, and I’m struggling with the answer.

[00:08:13] All right, let’s go back, because there’s so, so much in the answer that I want to come

[00:08:16] back to that you said.

[00:08:17] First, I read the sentence in the book about the storming the beaches at Normandy and Russians

[00:08:23] crossing the border, and you want the big dick energy to stop it.

[00:08:26] And what I thought about…

[00:08:27] And I say this being just such an incredible studier of World War II and the movies and

[00:08:35] everything else.

[00:08:36] If it happened today, the forces stopping that or going on the beaches in Normandy would

[00:08:42] have lots of women.

[00:08:43] I don’t know if it’d be 50-50.

[00:08:44] I agree.

[00:08:45] But you’d be…

[00:08:45] So I think that that one, we can say, hey, that’s open to all genders, too.

[00:08:51] And I think the reason you are hearing from people saying, hey, this should be directed

[00:08:55] to all genders, not just boys and men.

[00:08:57] Is that I think most women would say, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

[00:09:01] You know, my job is to protect, provide and procreate also.

[00:09:05] And why don’t we have a discussion about who has to do what?

[00:09:08] Because there’s a lot to do.

[00:09:10] And by the way, I can now go out in the workforce and compete very well, too.

[00:09:14] And I think when some people hear it, what they say is, hey, wow, Scott’s saying, you

[00:09:19] know, the men are the only ones who can be out there and compete in the man’s world.

[00:09:23] And the woman should be where she was in the 1950s, in the kitchen, taking care of the

[00:09:27] kids and so forth.

[00:09:29] I know you’re not saying that.

[00:09:31] That is certainly not your household.

[00:09:33] But what then do you think is the problem?

[00:09:36] We talk a lot about this crisis of masculinity.

[00:09:39] What’s the problem?

[00:09:41] Well, so first off, I want to acknowledge that sometimes being a provider is getting

[00:09:45] out of the way of your partner and being more supportive because she’s better at this whole

[00:09:49] money thing than you.

[00:09:51] And I also think that’s part of being a provider is being supportive and maybe providing more

[00:09:56] emotional and logistical labor.

[00:09:57] Because if you look at divorce rates that have skyrocketed in the last 40 years, in many

[00:10:02] ways, it’s a good thing because women no longer feel economically indentured to a partner.

[00:10:07] And also, men have not kept pace with women’s ascent.

[00:10:11] And that is women are ascending financially and professionally, and men have not kept

[00:10:15] pace emotionally and logistically.

[00:10:18] So oftentimes, the woman in the relationship wakes up and says, OK, you’re no longer the

[00:10:23] provider, and you haven’t stepped up in terms of the emotional labor that women usually

[00:10:26] provide at home.

[00:10:27] I’m out.

[00:10:29] And also, I do think at the end of the day, I think that there is an issue where oftentimes

[00:10:33] women aren’t as sexually attracted to their mate when he is not demonstrating a kind of

[00:10:39] socioeconomic status at or above her level.

[00:10:43] I think there’s just too many studies showing that that’s still the case.

[00:10:47] 75% of women say economic viability is still hugely important in a mate.

[00:10:51] It’s only 25% of men.

[00:10:53] Beyonce could work at McDonald’s and marry Jay-Z.

[00:10:55] The opposite is just not true.

[00:10:56] So there is…

[00:10:57] There is a delta there that I think we need to acknowledge.

[00:11:00] At the same time, I agree that we need to be more thoughtful about how do we teach our

[00:11:09] young men that there are different means of contribution, different means of protecting

[00:11:13] and providing, and procreating.

[00:11:16] But I don’t…

[00:11:17] If you read the book, the most legitimate criticism of the book, I think, is that Scott,

[00:11:22] reverse engineers, finding a mate.

[00:11:25] And being…

[00:11:27] Economically secure to all this behavior that that that’s the end state goal and that there are some people who aren’t totally focused on winning capitalism and maybe finding a romantic partner and they need to be happy too.

[00:11:41] And maybe we need to talk about how that person finds purpose and meaning without either or both of those things.

[00:11:47] I think that’s a really solid criticism and it hit me hard when I heard it.

[00:11:50] The criticism I choke on a little bit when I know people haven’t read the book is that they say, okay, here’s another dude blaming.

[00:11:57] I think that’s a really solid criticism and it hit me hard when I know people haven’t read the book is that they say, okay, here’s another dude blaming.

[00:11:57] women for men’s problems.

[00:11:59] Men are killing themselves at four times the rate of women.

[00:12:03] If you walk into a morgue and there’s five people who died by suicide, four are men.

[00:12:07] Only one in three men have a relationship under the age of 30, two in three women.

[00:12:11] That seems statistically impossible.

[00:12:12] It’s not because women are dating older because they want more economically and emotionally viable men.

[00:12:18] You have…

[00:12:19] In the next five years, you might have two female college graduates for every one male college graduate.

[00:12:24] So men on almost every dimension.

[00:12:27] Are just falling behind.

[00:12:29] They’re just descending.

[00:12:30] One in seven men is now considered a NEET.

[00:12:32] It’s tripled in the last 40 years.

[00:12:34] A NEET is someone either in education, employment, or in training.

[00:12:37] There are millions of fully able-bodied men who are no longer even trying.

[00:12:42] 63% of men under the age of 30 have given up on dating.

[00:12:46] 45% of men 18 to 24 have never asked a woman out in person.

[00:12:50] So I worry that young men are not attaching to work, not attaching to school, not attaching to romantic partners.

[00:12:56] And…

[00:12:57] They wake up at 30 obese, angry, more prone to conspiracy theory, more prone to blaming immigrants for their economic problems,

[00:13:03] more prone to blaming women for their romantic problems, and they become, quite frankly, shitty citizens.

[00:13:10] And the most dangerous person in the world, and there’s a lot of history around this,

[00:13:14] and I know you’re a student of history,

[00:13:18] the most unstable, violent countries in the world have a preponderance of one thing,

[00:13:23] and that is broke, lonely men with very little romantic or economic opportunity.

[00:13:27] And they get weaponized, usually by nationalists, and told it’s not their fault,

[00:13:32] demonized special interest groups, and we’ve gone to some very dark places there.

[00:13:36] So the problem is, we’re reverting a little bit to the laws of the jungle,

[00:13:41] where young men who are more aggressive, quite frankly, more violent, oftentimes,

[00:13:47] if they don’t have purpose or meaning in their lives, they create a very unstable factor in society.

[00:13:53] And, or put another way, I don’t think the country and women are going to continue to flourish as long as men,

[00:13:57] young men are flailing.

[00:14:00] And the group that’s been most supportive of the work hasn’t been young men, it’s been mothers.

[00:14:06] And what I hear from mothers is the following,

[00:14:08] I have three kids, two daughters, one son, one daughter in PR, one daughter at Penn,

[00:14:12] and my son is in the basement playing video games and babemaking.

[00:14:15] So the data is just overwhelming, the young men are struggling.

[00:14:20] Unfortunately, because of the unearned privilege of our generation, Henry, they’re being held accountable.

[00:14:26] We had unearned privilege.

[00:14:27] We had unearned privilege.

[00:14:27] We had unearned privilege.

[00:14:27] We had unearned privilege.

[00:14:27] There was an unfair wind in our sails.

[00:14:29] 1945 to 2000, a third of the world’s economic growth was crammed into the 5% of the population that was America.

[00:14:35] And then within that 5%, the majority of the prosperity was crammed into the one-third of the population that was white, male, and heterosexual.

[00:14:41] You and I had an unfair advantage.

[00:14:43] But what has happened, and in many ways, I’m the wrong messenger for this message,

[00:14:47] because people hear me and they have an understandable gag reflex.

[00:14:50] Well, okay, Scott, you’ve had a 3,000-year head start.

[00:14:55] You made this world.

[00:14:56] And now your hair’s on fire.

[00:14:58] And my response is, I get it.

[00:15:01] Be angry at me.

[00:15:02] I have a debt.

[00:15:04] But should we be holding a 19-year-old male accountable for my unearned privilege?

[00:15:08] So let me say, I have read the book.

[00:15:10] And let me say very clearly, you do not blame women in any way.

[00:15:14] I mean, that is crazy.

[00:15:15] And you celebrate the fact that there are, women are doing incredibly well,

[00:15:19] and there are opportunities for women that really haven’t been there before.

[00:15:22] And I think what a lot of people hear when they hear, hey, man,

[00:15:26] you know, start working out, get out there, protect, provide, procreate,

[00:15:30] is what they hear is, let’s roll back the clock.

[00:15:33] 1950s, that’s your role.

[00:15:34] You’ve got to provide.

[00:15:35] And so let me give you a little more context, which is,

[00:15:37] I was raised in the same era as you, same idea.

[00:15:41] The man’s job is to go be a titan of industry.

[00:15:44] The woman’s job in my little subculture that I grew up in,

[00:15:47] which was quite privileged, was support the man and do charity.

[00:15:52] And so I was raised to do that.

[00:15:54] And I, that was a,

[00:15:56] then, you know, and I would have struggled had I not been,

[00:15:59] it felt like I was doing that.

[00:16:00] And then the other thing that I want to stress is that you have sons.

[00:16:04] And so I can hear throughout the book, you know, you want to say like,

[00:16:08] I don’t want this to happen to you.

[00:16:09] I want you to have confidence and get out there and do great things.

[00:16:12] And it sounds like you’re an amazing dad,

[00:16:14] even though your sons think you’re totally uncool,

[00:16:16] which my children do too.

[00:16:18] One difference though, is I have daughters and I,

[00:16:22] I want the best for them.

[00:16:23] And I’ll tell you what I don’t want.

[00:16:25] I,

[00:16:25] I,

[00:16:26] I don’t want them to have to go back to the kitchen or just raise the kids

[00:16:31] unless they want to.

[00:16:32] And they can find a Scott Galloway to be their husband and go out and kill

[00:16:38] Impala and,

[00:16:39] and make sure they’re totally set for life.

[00:16:41] And I also don’t want them to have to give up their own economic opportunities

[00:16:45] to have a man say,

[00:16:47] Hey,

[00:16:48] love you now,

[00:16:48] but you know,

[00:16:49] if something more exciting comes along,

[00:16:51] I’m out of here and maybe you’ll get a good little settlement.

[00:16:53] And then that’ll be that.

[00:16:54] Like I want them to have,

[00:16:56] their own life.

[00:16:56] So what I do here.

[00:16:58] And again,

[00:16:58] this part of this comes from a little focus group of,

[00:17:01] of some of the smart women,

[00:17:03] including my daughters is that,

[00:17:05] you know,

[00:17:06] we got to sort of reconcile,

[00:17:08] like how does a modern family work here?

[00:17:10] And let’s go back to the study,

[00:17:12] which you cite very clearly.

[00:17:14] It’s very startling,

[00:17:16] which is,

[00:17:16] as you say,

[00:17:17] women tend to marry at their equal financial level or up.

[00:17:21] Men tend to marry down.

[00:17:25] And so,

[00:17:26] I guess my question for you is,

[00:17:27] is part of the solution,

[00:17:29] instead of saying to all men,

[00:17:31] get out of the basement,

[00:17:33] get out there,

[00:17:34] start making more than your wife to actually say,

[00:17:38] you know,

[00:17:38] it’s okay.

[00:17:40] I’m,

[00:17:40] I want my wife to do better than I do.

[00:17:42] And that’s okay.

[00:17:43] And I’m not threatened by that.

[00:17:44] And I will support her and I will be a,

[00:17:48] let’s call it a trad wife.

[00:17:50] I will be at home.

[00:17:50] I will take care of the home while my wife goes out and conquers the world.

[00:17:54] Cause she’s better at that than I am.

[00:17:56] Is that another way to be a man today?

[00:17:59] I agree with half of that.

[00:18:00] I would still urge men to get out of the basement,

[00:18:02] but I would also urge them to recognize that there are different forms of

[00:18:07] providing.

[00:18:08] And that one of the most important things that’s happened in American society

[00:18:12] the last 80 years is that we embrace women’s entry into the factories during

[00:18:16] world war two.

[00:18:17] Hitler said,

[00:18:18] women should stay at home and raise kids.

[00:18:20] We said a woman can,

[00:18:21] can,

[00:18:22] can assemble a P 51 just as well as a man.

[00:18:25] And had,

[00:18:25] we not made that decision,

[00:18:27] we probably still would have won the war,

[00:18:29] but it would have taken several years longer.

[00:18:30] If women,

[00:18:31] if we had not embraced women,

[00:18:32] women’s entry into the workforce in the seventies,

[00:18:35] eighties and nineties,

[00:18:36] we would probably be a second rate power behind China economically.

[00:18:40] So women’s entry and equal rights in education and in the workplace has been

[00:18:45] paramount to our success.

[00:18:47] The far right to their credit,

[00:18:49] recognize the problem with men before anybody else.

[00:18:54] The problem with that was there,

[00:18:55] the remedy was to take non-whites and women back to the fifties.

[00:18:59] Charlie Kirk’s message started off fine.

[00:19:02] You know,

[00:19:03] be involved in your church,

[00:19:04] be,

[00:19:05] be fit,

[00:19:05] be active,

[00:19:06] find a partner,

[00:19:07] find a mate where it came off.

[00:19:09] The track was saying that basically envisioning a role for women that was

[00:19:13] straight out of the fifties and then claiming that these women who went to work

[00:19:17] and became economically viable and worked hard and became partners of law firms

[00:19:21] or Goldman,

[00:19:21] that they’re desperately unhappy.

[00:19:23] That’s bullshit.

[00:19:24] The research shows,

[00:19:25] that there’s a cartoon of a woman who works on her career,

[00:19:31] ends up in her thirties alone,

[00:19:33] never found romantic love.

[00:19:34] And she’s sitting in a windowsill with a big baggy sweater,

[00:19:37] looking out with her tea and all she has is cats.

[00:19:39] And she’s really depressed.

[00:19:41] The reality is the research shows she’s just fine.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:44] Maybe she’s lonely.

[00:19:45] Maybe she would have liked the opportunity to have a family,

[00:19:47] but guess what?

[00:19:49] She oftentimes,

[00:19:50] when a woman doesn’t have a romantic relationship,

[00:19:51] pours that energy into her friend network and into her professional life and finds other

[00:19:55] places to give and receive love.

[00:19:57] When a man hasn’t cohabitated with a woman,

[00:20:00] by the time he’s 30 or married,

[00:20:01] there’s a one in three chance.

[00:20:02] He’s going to be a substance abuser.

[00:20:04] All of the research indicates that men need relationships more than women.

[00:20:08] Actually widows are happier after their husband dies.

[00:20:11] Widowers are less happy after their wife dies.

[00:20:14] Women in relationships do live longer,

[00:20:16] two to four years,

[00:20:17] but men live a good four to seven years longer.

[00:20:20] So at the same time,

[00:20:22] the left says,

[00:20:23] well,

[00:20:24] okay.

[00:20:25] To young men,

[00:20:25] you don’t have problems.

[00:20:27] You are the problem.

[00:20:28] And their answer to the quote unquote crisis of young men is the following.

[00:20:32] If you were just more in touch with your emotions,

[00:20:34] and if you acted more like a woman,

[00:20:36] I don’t think that’s helpful either.

[00:20:38] So is there a middle ground that says,

[00:20:40] all right,

[00:20:41] in a capitalist society,

[00:20:42] if you are not economically viable,

[00:20:44] the world potential mates and your own self-esteem are going to be hugely damaged.

[00:20:51] It is very hard to operate in a capitalist society as a man.

[00:20:54] If you are not,

[00:20:55] economically viable.

[00:20:56] Some of that viability might come from different forms of contribution.

[00:21:00] One of the people I,

[00:21:02] the first person I write about in the book is a guy named Paul Fine.

[00:21:06] He was my best friend’s father-in-law.

[00:21:08] He met his wife.

[00:21:09] He was a law student at 23.

[00:21:11] She was a 30 year old with two kids.

[00:21:13] They’ve spent 55 years together.

[00:21:15] This guy was the quintessential California stud for lack of a better term.

[00:21:19] 240Z,

[00:21:21] then a Porsche and a Ferrari.

[00:21:22] Handsome.

[00:21:23] Got me into working out.

[00:21:24] Nice,

[00:21:25] quiet.

[00:21:26] But the reason I bring up Paul is that the last 10 years of his life and of his wife’s life,

[00:21:34] Devorah,

[00:21:35] he’s been a full-time caregiver.

[00:21:36] She’s really struggling,

[00:21:38] really struggling.

[00:21:39] And that is a form of what I call protection and providing.

[00:21:44] And that’s not traditionally seen as a masculine attribute.

[00:21:49] And I would like to figure out,

[00:21:51] okay,

[00:21:51] how do we reconcile that men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:54] men,

[00:21:55] men,

[00:21:55] men,

[00:21:55] still are disproportionately evaluated on their contribution economically while also

[00:22:00] recognizing that if they don’t,

[00:22:03] if they,

[00:22:04] if maybe for a while,

[00:22:05] if they aren’t the economic contributor,

[00:22:06] that there’s an opportunity to demonstrate leadership,

[00:22:10] humanity,

[00:22:10] masculinity by being,

[00:22:12] I don’t know,

[00:22:13] a greater contributor around emotional labor.

[00:22:15] But I,

[00:22:16] I do,

[00:22:17] my wife worked at Goldman when I was younger.

[00:22:21] She made more money than me.

[00:22:22] So I did made my best to get home for bath time.

[00:22:24] I was a professor, to contribute. And we’re a team together. So I do think there needs to be

[00:22:32] an updated version of what it means to be a provider, and that we need to do a better job

[00:22:37] of celebrating some of the emotional labor and protection men can provide at home. I’ll give

[00:22:42] an example. I think men need to work harder to stay married. I think it’s really good for kids

[00:22:48] to stay married, and it’s hard. And a successful man may have more temptation

[00:22:52] than someone who isn’t successful. I think a means of being a protector is to do your best

[00:22:59] to stay married, to notice your partner and try really hard to stay in the game, even when it’s

[00:23:05] not easy. Hey, Kara Swisher here. I want to let you know that Vox Media is returning to South by

[00:23:13] Southwest in Austin for live tapings of your favorite podcasts. Join us from March 13th

[00:23:19] through the 15th for live tapings of Today Explained.

[00:23:22] The stage will also feature sessions from Brene Brown and Adam Grant, Marques Brownlee,

[00:23:35] Keith Lee, Vivian Tu, and Robin Arzon. It’s all part of the Vox Media podcast stage at South by

[00:23:41] Southwest, presented by Odoo. Visit voxmedia.com slash SXSW to pre-register and get your special

[00:23:49] discount on your innovation badge. That’s Vox Media.com slash SXSW.

[00:23:52] Vox Media.com slash SXSW to register. Really, you should register. We sell out and we hope to see you there.

[00:24:22] Joins me to discuss the state of the Democratic Party and which races to keep an eye out for this

[00:24:27] midterm election. The episode is out now. Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get

[00:24:33] your podcasts.

[00:24:39] Let me go back to what you just said about Goldman. You didn’t talk about this in the book,

[00:24:42] your wife at Goldman. So you were in a situation where your wife was making more than you. You were

[00:24:48] a professor. Did you not feel like a man?

[00:24:52] No, because, look, I don’t think people get out the measuring stick exactly. I think what happens is

[00:25:04] men have to come to grips with the modern world, and we have to train our boys this,

[00:25:09] that when more women are in graduate school and we live in an information economy, that your

[00:25:13] partner may make more money than you. But as a man, to be a provider, you need to provide

[00:25:20] in a number of ways. And so, I think it’s important to be a provider. I think it’s important to be a

[00:25:22] partner. Sometimes that might be being more supportive of your partner. It might be managing

[00:25:26] finances. It might be, quite frankly, getting your act together and getting the help you need

[00:25:31] to be more professionally viable. I find a lot of men just can’t handle the idea of,

[00:25:40] I mean, I literally meet men, Henry, who want their wife home barefoot and pregnant,

[00:25:45] and they’re not making that much money. And it’s like, well, okay, how are you going to

[00:25:47] afford your apartment on the Upper West Side? So, I do think there needs to be something for

[00:25:52] an earlier age that trains our young men to think, okay, you’re part of a unit. You’re part

[00:25:58] of a family unit. I didn’t feel that way because I had made a lot of money at past points in my

[00:26:03] life. You’ll appreciate it. I’ve been rich three times, which means I’ve lost it twice. I lost it

[00:26:07] in 2000, all of it. I lost it, crawled my way back, lost it all again in 08. Where I felt

[00:26:13] humiliation or shame is when my son, and I talk about this in the book, came marching out of my

[00:26:21] girlfriend at the time.

[00:26:22] And it was like literally several months after Lehman had filed. And I was broke. I was more

[00:26:30] than broke. I was in debt. And the first sensation I felt was one of fear, anxiety, and shame.

[00:26:36] Because up until that point, when I took a ton of risks professionally and went all in on my

[00:26:40] internet company or whatever it is, and it didn’t work out, I’m like, I’m a talented guy. I work

[00:26:44] hard. I have a lot of advantages. I’ll be fine. But when I thought, oh my gosh, I’ve not only

[00:26:50] failed for me, I’ve now failed for this kid. And I had all these…

[00:26:52] This sense of obligation and protection. I was so nauseous in the delivery room. I had to sit down

[00:26:59] and they thought it was because I was squeamish. I just felt all this shame. Now, I think some of

[00:27:05] that protective instinct is probably a healthy thing. But I always felt like, okay, as long as

[00:27:11] I’m contributing, as long as I’m economically viable, as long as… I was really… I like to

[00:27:16] think I was super supportive. Those first few years at Goldman, when my wife had two babies at

[00:27:21] home, I tried to be… I tried to be… I tried to be… I tried to be… I tried to be… I tried to

[00:27:22] be super supportive. And relationships aren’t 50-50. Occasionally, they go 90-10. I think I was

[00:27:29] contributing more at home because I had more time and more flexibility as an entrepreneur. And then

[00:27:36] several years later, when we moved to Florida, I was like, okay, now I’m making good money. I can

[00:27:40] kind of take the mantle here. So, conceptually, it’s a team. It’s a team. You’re both contributing.

[00:27:47] You’re both constantly trying to figure out how you contribute on different levels.

[00:27:50] What I haven’t reconciled with or I don’t have solutions for other than lifting up all young

[00:27:56] people, which I think will disproportionately help men, just as the economic attack of people

[00:28:01] under the age of 30 has disproportionately hurt men, the reality is the research is just very

[00:28:07] clear. Men struggle or have an additional form of anxiety when they lose their economic status

[00:28:15] in a household. Now, I don’t know if that’s learning, education,

[00:28:20] or we just have to adapt as a species, given there’s more women seeking graduate education.

[00:28:25] But we at least need to acknowledge it’s an issue and that it’s also getting in the way of household

[00:28:32] formation. 60% of 30-year-olds used to have a kid in the house. Now, it’s 27%. So, I guess the

[00:28:38] question is, how can we create economic policies that make young people economically viable?

[00:28:42] Because if I’m making a couple hundred grand a year at a VC-backed startup and my wife’s making

[00:28:48] 400 at Goldman, it’s not like she doesn’t want to have sex. It’s not like she doesn’t want to have sex.

[00:28:50] But if all of a sudden I get laid off and I can’t recover and I’m jealous and not that supportive

[00:28:56] of her and wallowing in my own self-fucking pity, that’s not very attractive.

[00:29:02] No, it is not. But maybe the message is, so I had to get out there and get a job for $800,000

[00:29:09] and out-earn her and then I felt like a man again.

[00:29:11] No, just get a job.

[00:29:12] No, get a job.

[00:29:12] Just get a job.

[00:29:13] So, it’s contributing because I felt the same pressure that you did. And look,

[00:29:18] when Eliot Spitzer went after me,

[00:29:20] Wall Street threw me in a trash can and my kids are there. It’s like, I wanted to do something to

[00:29:27] make them proud and contribute and so forth. And fortunately, that all worked out. And so,

[00:29:32] I totally feel that. What I would suggest is you also talk in the book about a lot about how

[00:29:36] for you, the key to attracting a woman was the ability to basically show resources and be rich

[00:29:43] and have money. And all I’m saying is your amazing sounding wife apparently actually

[00:29:50] didn’t care that much about the money in the beginning, if you were a professor and she was

[00:29:54] a Goldman. And yet, it was still great. You were married and you had a great team and you still do.

[00:29:59] I did some research on this and there’s a lot of research on sexual attraction. And women are

[00:30:05] sexually attracted to men for three reasons. Number one is their ability to signal resources.

[00:30:11] Now, that’s the bad news. You show up with a Range Rover and a Panerai, that signals resources. But

[00:30:16] the good news is also it’s signaling future resources. It’s also having a lot of money. And

[00:30:20] you act together. I’m in school to learn how to install HVAC energy heaters. I can’t stay out till

[00:30:27] two in the morning. I have a plan. I have shit to do in the morning. The reason why women are drawn

[00:30:32] to men who are in shape is not because of the aesthetics. It’s because it shows their discipline

[00:30:37] and they can show up. And it means that they’ll probably be a good provider. But just all the

[00:30:42] research shows a man’s ability to signal. Look, Henry, you know the case here. You see a dude

[00:30:47] who’s five foot zero and 200 pounds. He’s got a lot of money. He’s got a lot of money. He’s got a lot of

[00:30:50] pounds and brightens up a room by leaving it. And he’s with a high character, attractive woman.

[00:30:55] I’ll give you one guess about his economics. You know the deal there. He’s wealthy. That’s number

[00:31:03] one. Number two is intellect. And it’s instinctual. Your ability to make good decisions ensures or

[00:31:10] increases the likelihood that your family and the tribe will survive. The fastest way, by the way,

[00:31:14] to communicate intellect is humor. And I jokingly say, this is my impersonation of a woman.

[00:31:20] I’m laughing. I’m laughing. I’m naked. And I’ve just always said, and it triggers people,

[00:31:25] if you can make a woman laugh, she will grab coffee with you. Also, to be funny is not

[00:31:31] something you can force. Some people just aren’t funny. Other people are naturally funny.

[00:31:35] But laugh out loud. Have a great sense of humor. That means that people will be drawn to you.

[00:31:42] And the third thing, and this is all research-based, that is the secret weapon for attracting a mate

[00:31:49] in the most underrated way. And that’s the secret weapon for attracting a mate in the most

[00:31:50] underrated way. And that’s the secret weapon for attracting a mate in the most underrated way.

[00:31:50] Another leveraged and underrecognized attribute is kindness. And it comes from a very instinctual

[00:31:55] place. Women believe that they will likely at some point in their lives gestate and that they

[00:32:01] will be vulnerable. And they want someone kind. And there’s a difference between kindness and

[00:32:06] being nice. Women sense out when you’re being nice because you want to have sex with them

[00:32:10] or impress them. Do you have good manners? Are you planting trees the shade of which

[00:32:16] you won’t sit under? Do you have a kindness practice? Are you patient?

[00:32:19] Do you go out of your way to do things for people when there’s no reciprocal expectation?

[00:32:25] Women notice this. And it’s not only being a good human, being good for the world,

[00:32:30] but it is the most underleveraged weapon in the mating world is kindness. And men think that they

[00:32:35] need to be strong or performative or constantly boast about themselves. And also, I’ve talked

[00:32:42] very openly. I was not born a kind person. Some people are just born giving. I was not. Everything

[00:32:48] was about me, literally fucking me all the time until about the age of 40. And then I realized,

[00:32:56] OK, I got to get beyond this. And I started a kindness practice. It starts with manners.

[00:33:01] And every day, try and go out of your way to do something kind. And what happens is you start to

[00:33:06] develop that muscle memory. And I do think you can become a kinder person. I’d like to think

[00:33:11] I’ve become much kinder because it’s become muscle memory for me. But the reasons why women are

[00:33:18] attracted to me are because I’ve become a kinder person. I’ve become a kinder person. I’ve become a

[00:33:18] to men are very basic, but what is under leveraged is this kindness practice. But we still, again,

[00:33:25] I don’t think we have an honest conversation around, I mean, there’s this big movement online.

[00:33:31] Have you seen this? Women being asked about mating, six feet, six figures, six feet, six

[00:33:36] figures, bare minimum. That’s not unreasonable, right? Six feet, six figures. If you take out

[00:33:41] married men, men over the age of 50 and obese men, that’s 2% of the population. So the online

[00:33:47] dating world, whenever you digitize a part of the economy, it becomes win or take most.

[00:33:54] We’ve digitized mating. People used to meet at work, through friends, at school. Now they meet

[00:33:59] on dating apps. And it’s an immediate impression. Does this person meet my qualifications?

[00:34:05] And so the top 10% of men get 80% of the attention, leaving 90% of the men fighting over

[00:34:11] whatever it is, 20% of the women. So mating has been consolidated. And what we used to have in

[00:34:17] mating,

[00:34:17] is the following. If you talk to people who’ve been married longer than 30 years,

[00:34:22] 80% of them say one was much more interested in the other in the beginning. And it was usually

[00:34:26] the man who was much more interested than the woman in the beginning. Again, women are choosier

[00:34:32] because the downside of sex is much greater and their fertility window is shorter. They are

[00:34:37] choosier. They are hardwired to be choosier. If you’re in a room with 100 people, 50 men,

[00:34:40] 50 women, and there’s alcohol, the majority of the men would agree to have sex with the majority

[00:34:44] of the women. The majority of the women would have sex with none of the men. Women are choosier.

[00:34:47] What happened though with these couples, what they will say is over time, the man was able to

[00:34:54] demonstrate excellence. We went to the same church and I saw how kind he was to his parents.

[00:34:59] We worked together and he was so talented. We hung out in the same friend group and he was

[00:35:04] funny. I liked the way he danced. I liked the way he smelled. I went on a second date with him. And

[00:35:10] when he relaxed, I found that he was just super interesting. Where does a man demonstrate

[00:35:15] excellence now?

[00:35:16] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Oh, man.

[00:35:17] The church are not going to school. Many aren’t even going into work anymore. So what we have is

[00:35:23] an absence of connection. And I’m not suggesting that it’s great for women, but it appears to be

[00:35:27] especially hard on young men. So I find that when we have these conversations, we do it in a vacuum

[00:35:36] of the way the world should be according to the woke narrative and don’t want to acknowledge

[00:35:41] thousands of years of instinct around what’s actually happening. I’ll end with an example.

[00:35:47] That triggers people. I think on a date, the man pays. And I’ve told my sons,

[00:35:55] when you’re in the company of women, you pay for everything. And my son’s like,

[00:35:58] that’s so boomer, dah, dah, dah. We should split the check. And I’m like, okay, but be clear.

[00:36:05] A woman who you split the check with is never going to kiss you. And I stand by that.

[00:36:11] Mammals have mating rituals. And one of those mating rituals is you want to demonstrate

[00:36:16] strength and you want to demonstrate commitment. And also, my land acknowledgement here,

[00:36:21] my more rational justification for men should pay for everything is the following.

[00:36:26] Men benefit more from relationships than women. The downside of sex is much greater for women

[00:36:31] than it is for men. The fertility window for a woman is much shorter. You are going to benefit

[00:36:39] as a man more from the relationship on average than the woman. The downside of sex is greater

[00:36:44] for her than for you. And her time is much shorter than for you. And the downside of sex is greater

[00:36:46] than for you. And her time is more valuable than yours because you can have kids in your 50s. She

[00:36:49] cannot. So one way to recognize the asymmetry in the relationship that accretes benefit to you

[00:36:55] and to also acknowledge that there is a mating courtship and a ritual and to demonstrate you

[00:37:00] not only recognize the asymmetry, but you want to demonstrate valor, you want to demonstrate a

[00:37:05] commitment to this relationship is you pay. I’m not suggesting all the time. If a woman asks a

[00:37:10] man out, fine, she can pay. But generally speaking, when in the company, and women,

[00:37:16] I find a lot of women and men get triggered by this. I’m like,

[00:37:20] has anyone ever slept with you that you split the check with? Anyway.

[00:37:24] Anyway, it’s no wonder you’re the top rated podcaster. You put it that way. I would say

[00:37:30] that, yes, I will let women to speak to whether they want the man.

[00:37:33] Did you split the check with your wife, Henry?

[00:37:35] I do not split it. I pay and I do feel hopelessly old fashioned in that,

[00:37:39] but I hope it is appreciated. And what do you tell your daughters when they go on a date?

[00:37:43] Do you tell them to split the check?

[00:37:44] I have not had that conversation.

[00:37:46] Good question. All right. So let’s talk a little bit more. But so here’s the thing. You’re studying

[00:37:50] the research. You’re telling your sons, hey, guys, the research says you’re not going to get

[00:37:56] a mate. If you don’t make a lot of money, get out there and make money. I’m not in no way

[00:38:00] suggesting that we shouldn’t have skills that are marketable and a career that we’re proud of,

[00:38:05] that’s interesting and has opportunity. I hope that for both. But one thing I did check,

[00:38:10] because with my focus group of brilliant, capable women, I said,

[00:38:15] is Scott right?

[00:38:16] Right. Isn’t it really that you just want them to be able to write checks, take care of you,

[00:38:22] make you feel like, yeah, I scored an incredible Impala hunter out there? Isn’t that really it?

[00:38:28] I got a lot of stone faces saying, actually, Henry, what I would like is, yes, a smart,

[00:38:37] capable, together, in shape person, although not necessarily one who is in the gym for four hours

[00:38:43] a day, but who is flexible.

[00:38:46] And is going to enter a partnership with me and say, okay, right now my career is going really

[00:38:51] well. Let me drive my career for a while. You do more of the housework and so forth and is flexible.

[00:38:57] And I, in fact, I had one person say, very funny, said, tell you what, the only thing women have no

[00:39:04] interest in or patience for, it’s sitting around watching guys do jack shit because their feelings

[00:39:10] are hurt.

[00:39:11] 100%.

[00:39:12] Get up here and start helping. So, so that’s all I’d say is, in this,

[00:39:16] conversation, in this modern maleness, is part of it just saying like, yeah, that’s great if my wife

[00:39:23] earns more than I do, even though I have a skill and a career and I’m contributing or I’m staying

[00:39:28] home with the kids. Women making more money is instrumental to our economy and makes households

[00:39:36] safer and more loving. The primary cause of divorce isn’t infidelity or lack of shared

[00:39:42] values. It’s economic anxiety. And this notion that women, the far right will say that women

[00:39:50] entered into this false, they bought this myth that they’d be happy if they worked and became

[00:39:54] economically secure, and now they’re alone and don’t have kids and they’re depressed.

[00:39:58] Okay, so your suggestion was that they end up like my mom with a son and no economic viability?

[00:40:05] Like, of course they should be economically viable. Of course they should go for it. And

[00:40:11] at some point they might say, you know,

[00:40:12] I think I’d get more reward spending more time at home with the kids. And hopefully as a team,

[00:40:19] you decide that that might work. The man might decide that. On average, more women are going

[00:40:27] to decide that’s what makes them happier than a man. I think women on average get more reward

[00:40:33] from what I’ll call a relational reward, relationships, and men get more reward from

[00:40:39] ego and affirmation. So,

[00:40:42] this is what it comes down to. Everyone has to bring a partnership, that’s the term. And if the

[00:40:51] dude isn’t, generally speaking, society sort of says has these gender roles, that the female will

[00:40:59] contribute more emotional labor and that the man will contribute more, quote unquote, economic

[00:41:03] viability. Things have changed. The majority of that change is a good thing. What I would suggest

[00:41:07] to any man is you need to be economically viable. And part of that economic viability,

[00:41:12] might be more supportive, taking on a more non-traditional role, fixing shit, run the

[00:41:19] household, be good, be a great dad, pick up the slack domestically. When my wife was a Goldman

[00:41:26] making a shit ton of money or a lot more than me, I picked up the slack. But we also have to

[00:41:32] recognize that society tends to be judgmental on those men. They tend to discount them a little bit,

[00:41:41] not take them as seriously.

[00:41:42] As a woman can be a super impressive woman who’s focused on raising great kids and providing a

[00:41:50] loving, secure household. I’m not sure many people refer to a guy as a really impressive guy who’s a

[00:41:55] stay-at-home dad. I think there needs to be a societal change. I think it’s going to take a

[00:42:00] while. But what you have, I think with a lot of men, again, that rate that erectile dysfunction

[00:42:07] drugs goes up threefold when the woman in the partnership starts making more money.

[00:42:12] I think that’s because a lot of men, unfortunately, lose their self-esteem,

[00:42:16] that they think, I fucked up.

[00:42:19] Yeah. And I believe that. But given that that’s the reality, unless we’re saying like,

[00:42:26] hey, women, like, whoa, they’re like, you know, the men are just getting a little bit

[00:42:31] too intimidated by you. Chill out. Don’t do so well and so forth. I feel like part of the

[00:42:37] message has to be, and I feel like you, you’re a great person to deliver it because you have

[00:42:41] this amazing ability to.

[00:42:42] Say what you think, regardless of whether people scream or throw fruit at you or whatever,

[00:42:47] like you’re bold to say, like, so what if society says, oh, he’s just not, he’s not being a man,

[00:42:56] like man up, do it, be part of the partnership. And then, yes, when you have an opportunity,

[00:43:04] advance your own self or go to the gym or whatever it is. But in the meantime, help.

[00:43:08] I think that’s entirely accurate, but let’s, let’s move to.

[00:43:12] Solutions. Part of it is society, not shaming or diminishing a man’s masculinity because

[00:43:19] they decide at that moment, it’d be better if he took on more emotional labor than, uh, his partner

[00:43:25] who happens to be killing it professionally. Absolutely. Let’s encourage society to embrace

[00:43:30] that. Let’s encourage men to not feel bad about themselves. The, the part that’s probably a little

[00:43:36] bit harder is you haven’t talked about a woman’s responsibility and still being attracted to a man

[00:43:40] who doesn’t make as much. I mean.

[00:43:42] And the six feet, six figures thing, if that checks out, I get you. And I do hear the height

[00:43:47] thing a lot. People, a lot of time, I think there’s some cognitive, I think there’s some

[00:43:50] dissonance between what people say they want and what they actually want in terms of their

[00:43:55] behavior, what their behavior reflects. People say they want a more sensitive man, a more sensitive

[00:44:01] man. The research shows that women aren’t really drawn sexually to sensitive men, that that just

[00:44:07] leaves two people in the car crying and the parallel parking space empty.

[00:44:12] I think what women want and what the research shows is they want someone to notice their lives.

[00:44:18] That, okay, do you notice how fucking hard I’m working? And I’m, I’m also maintaining a

[00:44:24] disproportionate amount of the, the home duty. Do you recognize that this is not all about you?

[00:44:29] That I want stages where strangers applaud for me? Do you recognize I would like the affirmation of

[00:44:35] others? Do you, do you notice me? Do you notice that I might have different priorities about you

[00:44:40] and that the marriage just isn’t about me?

[00:44:42] I’m in a support role of your fucking awesomeness. I, I, so what I think the research says and what

[00:44:48] I’ve aspired to is, and how I coach men is, I don’t know, the word sensitive, I get it,

[00:44:54] be thoughtful, but I don’t know if women want a sensitive man. The most sensitive men I know

[00:45:01] usually aren’t the women, aren’t the ones women are most drawn to. I think what women want

[00:45:06] and what makes for a good partnership is the man makes a real effort to notice

[00:45:12] the people in his lives. To say, I, I care so much about you that even if something’s not

[00:45:18] important to me, if it’s important to you, then it becomes important to me. And I realize this

[00:45:23] whole thing isn’t a support system around me being a baller to strangers and the affirmation of

[00:45:28] strangers. That, that you have, your professional life has meaning. That we’re going to build

[00:45:33] something together. That what you’re doing, that what you’re doing, whether it’s professionally,

[00:45:38] for God’s sakes, like, you’re just fucking amazing.

[00:45:42] And the fact that you’ve been able to achieve these professional things, it’s time for me to

[00:45:45] make it, it ends up that you really love being a baller professionally. Well, it’s time for me to

[00:45:51] take on a support role because I can really help you. But men are not going to be as sensitive.

[00:45:58] And, and again, and this is somewhat snarky and the highest, highest rates of divorce,

[00:46:05] lowest rates of divorce, gay men. Next, next lowest, straight couples. By far the highest

[00:46:12] rates of divorce are with lesbian marriages. And I always joke it’s because both women are

[00:46:19] listening. And there, there is something to masculine and feminine energy that creates

[00:46:26] what I would call very productive households. That’s not to say that gay households can’t

[00:46:30] have the same, the same outcomes, but I think a mix of masculine and feminine energy is the most

[00:46:35] important alliance in history. Sometimes two women can bring that mix, two men can bring that mix.

[00:46:41] But when,

[00:46:42] I hear online that women just want a sensitive man. I’m going to call bullshit.

[00:46:47] I think they want someone who notices their life, who demonstrates strength, who is kind,

[00:46:52] will be a good, you know, a good provider, which can mean other things other than economics.

[00:46:56] But I think a lot of the narrative online was from an editor at the Atlantic who’s married to a

[00:47:03] fucking caveman.

[00:47:09] So one of the problems I think here,

[00:47:12] is that, and Paul Krugman has talked about this, is that we, we are seeing a decline in the number

[00:47:19] of what Paul Krugman and Donald Trump might describe as manly jobs, manufacturing, outside,

[00:47:25] construction, all that stuff. We are seeing a lot of our job growth is in healthcare, nursing,

[00:47:32] home aides, jobs that as Paul Krugman describes as female coded. So is another part of the solution,

[00:47:39] and you, you have advocated for a big increase,

[00:47:42] in minimum wage to $25 an hour minimum, which I think makes great sense. We cannot

[00:47:46] have this idea where huge corporations that make tens of billions of dollars in operating income

[00:47:52] pay full-time workers so little that they’re poor. I’m sorry, we have to fix that. So

[00:48:00] you’re addressing that, but is it also, do men have to be proud of taking jobs that are female

[00:48:09] coded or have been? Is that part of it?

[00:48:12] I definitely think we need to, and the question is, how do you do it? Is it more,

[00:48:19] you know, some men make great nurses. Women are going to make better doctors. There’s more women

[00:48:24] in medical school now than men. They’re, they have better bedside manner. If I say women make

[00:48:31] better managers or women are likely going to make better doctors, everyone politely nods and claps.

[00:48:36] If I say men are better in combat and on a risk-adjusted basis, oftentimes make better

[00:48:41] entrepreneurs because they’re more rich, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that women are better

[00:48:42] in combat and on a risk-aggressive, people don’t feel safe around me. So it doesn’t appear to me

[00:48:47] that people really want to have an honest conversation around acknowledging there are

[00:48:50] some differences, which in no way diminishes the opportunities presented to each sex.

[00:48:55] But yeah, let’s stop. First off, the genderized, the labor that’s typically thought of as being

[00:49:03] more gendered for females in the healthcare industry, I oftentimes think that’s used as

[00:49:08] an excuse to pay them less than they’re worth. And that, for example,

[00:49:12] 70 to 80% of primary school teachers are women. And I think that as a means of increasing the

[00:49:20] number of men in the field, and also, I’m not saying offer men more money, I’m saying pay

[00:49:26] teachers more, but also degendering, and I don’t know if you can do this, some of the healthcare

[00:49:30] and support work where men feel some, you know, it’s like that first movie from Ben Stiller,

[00:49:35] Meet the Fockers, where he’s embarrassed to say he’s a nurse. So yeah, the question is,

[00:49:41] how do we do that? And I think that’s a really important question. And I think that’s a really

[00:49:42] And what I go to is specific economic programs, and that is, men have been disproportionately hurt

[00:49:49] by this economic tilting where we transfer money from the young to the old. I think pretty much

[00:49:54] every fiscal policy of the story of America the last 40 years is let’s have old people vote

[00:49:57] themselves more money. We transfer $1.2 trillion a year in the form of social security. It’s the

[00:50:03] greatest transfer of capital in history. It happens every year from young to old. And we’re transferring

[00:50:07] it to the wealthiest generation in history. You and I should not get social security.

[00:50:12] Minimum wage had kept pace with productivity and inflation. It’d be $23 an hour. Let’s raise it to

[00:50:17] $25. Universal childcare, child tax credit gets stripped out of the infrastructure bill because

[00:50:23] it’s $40billion,butthe$120 billion a year cost of living adjustment of social security flies

[00:50:28] right through. Just as the economic transfer of wealth from young to old has disproportionately

[00:50:36] hurt young men who are often looked to by society and themselves for being at least economically

[00:50:41] viable. I think that’s a really important question. And I think that’s a really important question.

[00:50:42] I think the best solution would be to raise up all young people and stop using their credit card to

[00:50:49] prop up our prosperity. Tax holiday, alternative minimum tax on people making more than a million

[00:50:55] dollars, get rid of capital gains, tax deduction, and mortgage interest rate, which is nothing but

[00:51:00] a transfer of wealth from young to old who make their money with current income and rent. You and

[00:51:05] I make our income from selling stocks and we own. So just as an outsourcing of manufacturing jobs

[00:51:12] to young people has disproportionately hurt men, I’m not a fan of like leveling up young men with

[00:51:18] like, you know, mail bonds or something. Let’s lift up, let’s stop this massive transfer of

[00:51:24] wealth from young to old. And I think that will go a long way towards helping young men and young

[00:51:30] families. Does the man need to make more money than the woman? No. But when there’s economic

[00:51:35] anxiety in the household, it takes a toll on everyone. But

[00:51:42] I would argue when there’s economic anxiety, society and unwittingly, the husband and the wife

[00:51:49] hold the man disproportionately responsible for that failure and that anxiety.

[00:51:54] So let’s try and eliminate some of that anxiety for all young people and level them up and stop

[00:52:00] this insane intergenerational theft that we’ve all participated in the last 40 years.

[00:52:05] I think there are some terrific ideas there. And I just going back to the pointed hand about

[00:52:11] young men. I think there are some terrific ideas there. And I just going back to the pointed hand about young men.

[00:52:12] In particular, it’s there is no way we are going to rebuild manufacturing to what it was in the 1950s

[00:52:20] and 60s in this country. And even if we were, you’d probably have a lot of women who wanted

[00:52:24] those jobs. And so part of the solution does seem to me to be we need to make it OK for men to work

[00:52:33] in industries that are growing very rapidly, that provide incredibly important services like

[00:52:38] health care and so forth. And I do think part of that is money. But as you point out,

[00:52:42] part of that is money. And I think part of that is money. And I think part of that is money.

[00:52:42] Because their industries are just so egregiously unpaid or poorly paid. So this is great. And

[00:52:52] you’ve gotten a lot of your incredibly good advice in the book in there. I just let’s tell us about

[00:52:58] your mother, because you just have the incredible vivid scenes in the book where your father was

[00:53:04] very successful. They seemed to have a happy marriage for a little while and they didn’t.

[00:53:07] And there’s some awful scenes about the breakup and suddenly you were left.

[00:53:12] As a young boy and your mom was making $800 a month and you had no money and you had to move

[00:53:17] from a great house to a crappy apartment and you could have gone south fast. And yet what I heard

[00:53:25] just so vividly in the book was your mom basically somehow saved your ass.

[00:53:31] That’s a generous question. Like a lot of my life was my mom. It still is. I’m still I’m a 61 year

[00:53:37] old man. It’s not over the death of his mother. It was me and her against the world. My parents

[00:53:42] both pulled out of school at the age of 13. We’re living the American dream. We lived in a house in

[00:53:47] Orange County. If you stood on your toes, you could see the ocean. My dad was not what you call

[00:53:53] a high character man, married and divorced four times, left his last wife when she had

[00:53:58] late stage Parkinson’s. And, you know, the bottom line is my dad was this handsome guy

[00:54:04] with a Scottish accent. And I jokingly say in 70s California, that meant you could not only

[00:54:08] think with your dick, you could listen to it. My dad was just out.

[00:54:12] Control. And and my mom decided to leave. And unfortunately, at that time, my mom wasn’t very

[00:54:20] sophisticated. I’m not sure if you got bad legal advice, but we went from being upper middle class

[00:54:25] to lower middle class, what felt like overnight. And it was really hard on my mom. And there’s a

[00:54:33] lot of evidence that shows the single point of failure for reverse engineer when a boy comes

[00:54:37] off the tracks, it’s when he loses a male role model. And what’s interesting through death,

[00:54:42] divorce or abandonment, what’s interesting is that girls in single parent homes have similar

[00:54:46] outcomes of college attendance, of income of self harm. Boys, when they lose a male role model at

[00:54:53] that moment become more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college. The research shows

[00:54:59] the following that while boys are physically stronger, they’re mentally and neurologically

[00:55:03] much weaker than girls. And so the importance of having a male role model is really important for

[00:55:10] men. And even just stating that five years ago seemed to upset me. And I think that’s a really

[00:55:12] important part of how we see our generation, how we have to see the future. Foreign 경제 precautions

[00:55:12] and practices for men and women.

[00:55:12] negative value that people that Oh, you don’t think women can raise men, like No,

[00:55:14] my mom was there for me, she was wonderful. But there is evidence that that shows that boys

[00:55:20] especially need men in their life. And you know, it wasn’t, we were never poor Henry, my life wasn’t

[00:55:27] hard. But what I what I say is that and one of the reasons I feel like many of our generation have a

[00:55:33] debt is that I got assisted lunch, I didn’t get free lunch, but I got assisted lunch. And they

[00:55:39] used to mail the coupons to us so I wouldn’t be embarrassed. And the coupon Scheinberg, which I

[00:55:40] think is the most important thing for you to consider that you’re part of the military. And

[00:55:41] be embarrassed. And the coupons looked the same as everyone else. I always thought that was such

[00:55:44] a thoughtful government program. I got Pell Grants. I got into UCLA because it had a 74%

[00:55:54] admissions rate. I had a 3.1 from high school, 1130 on the SAT. I got into UCLA, 74% admissions.

[00:56:00] This year, it’s going to be 9%. I talk about this openly. When I was a senior in high school,

[00:56:05] I was 17. My mom was 47. She became pregnant. And family planning was accessible. Had we been

[00:56:13] in a red state, we were not very sophisticated. We did not have a lot of money. It might have

[00:56:18] been so difficult that maybe she would have carried that baby to term. I would have not

[00:56:22] gone to college. I would have done the right thing and stayed around and helped my mom.

[00:56:26] I got Pell Grants. I came of age during the internet when middle-class taxpayers made

[00:56:32] these forward-leaning investments in technologies.

[00:56:34] Mostly for the military that spilled over into the private sector. Immigrants built my companies.

[00:56:40] I’m not exaggerating. My senior people that did the coding, the consulting, were all immigrants

[00:56:45] from Canada, Afghanistan, France. So I feel like everything that gave me this amazing life is under

[00:56:54] attack right now. And what I think about being a single parent, I would like to say, I think one

[00:57:01] of the best things we could do for young people, I have a series of policy recommendations,

[00:57:04] mandatory national service, but also universal child care. Because if you look at the zone of

[00:57:10] suicide for a man, where he’s most vulnerable is the year after divorce. And it’s usually economic

[00:57:16] strain that leads to divorce. And so let’s level up young people such that we can remove a certain

[00:57:21] level of economic anxiety from their lives. And one place that would be is child care, because

[00:57:27] in a capitalist society, you need dual incomes. And going back to your point, it’s not necessarily

[00:57:33] the man-making level. It’s the man-making level. It’s the man-making level. It’s the man-making level.

[00:57:34] It’s the man-making level. It’s the man-making level. It’s the man-making level. It’s the man-making level.

[00:57:34] It’s when, quite frankly, there’s economic anxiety in the house. And oftentimes, the man himself,

[00:57:41] the household and society holds the man more responsible. So I think there’s a lot of

[00:57:46] potential solutions here. I’m veering from the story about my mom, single immigrant,

[00:57:52] single mother immigrant, lived and died a secretary. And every day, every day, and I try to

[00:57:57] do this with my boys in small and big ways, convinced me that I was wonderful. I mean,

[00:58:03] I was a wonderful person. I was a wonderful person. I was a wonderful person. I was a wonderful person.

[00:58:04] I was an unremarkable student, tall, skinny, bad acne. And she made me feel like I was just this.

[00:58:09] She used to come home. She used to come home and say to me, oh my God, you’re so handsome.

[00:58:13] Look at you. You’re so handsome. I was not, Henry. I was not. And I’d roll my eyes. But

[00:58:19] having this wonderful person tell you you’re wonderful, it just anchors you.

[00:58:25] Oh, oh. I mean, she’s a hero. And I don’t, you skimmed over, you’re getting into UCLA. I think

[00:58:31] there’s another message. Again, good advice for all people.

[00:58:34] You have this anecdote in there where you got dinged and you appealed it. I don’t know whether

[00:58:40] that was you or your mother, but somebody said, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Like, no, I’m

[00:58:45] like, take a chance on me. And they did. And another thing, story you tell, it’s great little

[00:58:49] anecdote is you were failing a bunch of classes. You needed to graduate. You went and saw every

[00:58:55] professor and you said, please change the F to a D so I can graduate and get out of your hair and go

[00:59:03] to work.

[00:59:04] That is something that I hear a lot of young people feel like they just have to take what

[00:59:10] was given, the decision from the authority figures. And right there, two examples for you

[00:59:15] that I think sort of show us how you became this amazing entrepreneur who does not take realities

[00:59:21] as a given, but a starting point. And you go out and mold it and try to make it better and so forth.

[00:59:27] You appealed those decisions. And you say in the book that the UCLA one in particular was just

[00:59:31] huge. If you hadn’t gone there, your life would have been totally different.

[00:59:34] I didn’t get in. I was installing shelving. And the highlight of my day was I used to get

[00:59:39] ridiculously fucking high with my coworkers and then take to the highways of the Inland Empire.

[00:59:45] And I came home one day, I was living with my mother and I just broke down. And I was just

[00:59:50] like, everyone’s always told me I was smart and I was funny. At that point, I thought I wanted to

[00:59:54] be a pediatrician. And I’m like, this is it. This is my life. I’m, you know, it’s going to be me and

[00:59:59] you living together. And I’m commuting an hour to install shelving. And there’s nothing wrong

[01:00:03] with vocational work.

[01:00:04] But I’d always thought I was going to go to college. And my mom said, is there anything

[01:00:07] we can do? And I found out about this appeal process. And I wrote, and the truth has a nice

[01:00:13] language, a nice ring to it. I said, I want to be a doctor and I’m installing shelving. Will you

[01:00:17] reconsider my application? And I remember the exact phone call. Someone from the admissions

[01:00:21] office at UCLA called me and said, you’re not qualified, but you’re a native son of California

[01:00:25] and we’re going to give you a shot. And it inspired. And then I rewarded them with a 2.27 GPA.

[01:00:34] I watched Planet of the Apes and made bongs out of household items for five years. And then what

[01:00:39] happened, Henry? The greatest public school in the nation, Berkeley, let me into business school.

[01:00:43] Imagine that. Because back then, America was about giving unremarkable kids a chance.

[01:00:49] And then, and you know what happened? I got my shit together and I started getting my act together.

[01:00:55] And this is a flex, but I’m going to make it. In the last seven years, I’ve given $20 million back

[01:01:03] to UCLA and Berkeley. And I’m going to make it. And I’m going to make it. And I’m going to make it.

[01:01:04] America’s about betting on unremarkable people. You want to plant as many acorns as possible

[01:01:11] because no institution or person can be the arbiter of greatness at the age of 18. You just

[01:01:17] don’t know. So America’s morphed from giving as many unremarkable people a shot as possible to

[01:01:23] trying to identify a superclass of freakishly remarkable people or rich kids to turn into

[01:01:30] billionaires. I just think we’ve lost the script. I wouldn’t…

[01:01:34] I couldn’t get where I am now if I… A, I would… UCLA cost me $7,000. Undergraduate and

[01:01:42] graduate, seven years, cost me $7,000, total tuition, total tuition. And it was accessible.

[01:01:49] And all of those things that gave me a hand up are under attack or gone. And so I think… And I

[01:01:57] don’t know what your story is, Henry, where you went to school, but I think men of our generation,

[01:02:01] it would be almost impossible for us to not to look back.

[01:02:04] America was so crazy, unfairly good to us that we have a job and a debt to shove down the ladders

[01:02:13] behind us again because I just wouldn’t have these opportunities. I wouldn’t… There’s no

[01:02:19] fucking way I would have got into UCLA. There’s no way. I owe the regents of the University of

[01:02:26] California and California taxpayers a lot. And I owe America a lot. But America loved

[01:02:33] unremarkable people. And I owe America a lot. And I owe America a lot. And I owe America a lot.

[01:02:34] kids of single mothers back then. And I’m not so sure it still loves them.

[01:02:39] No, I hear you on all of that. And again, let me say, your story is incredibly inspiring. Your

[01:02:46] mom’s story is incredibly inspiring. There is a boatload of super good advice in the book. And I

[01:02:54] just want to thank you. I want everybody to read the book. And I want to say thank you for letting

[01:02:58] me challenge you as the father of daughters and making sure that your vision for the future is

[01:03:04] the modern male doesn’t force them back into the kitchen or back into the nursery because I like

[01:03:11] the opportunities that they have. And I want them to have great men in their lives. So that’s why

[01:03:16] I’ve been challenging you. But it’s just such a privilege to have you. And it’s a great book.

[01:03:19] And screw anybody who’s critical of it. My God, let them put it out there then.

[01:03:24] Well, you know what, Henry? I appreciate the feedback and the pushback. And quite frankly,

[01:03:28] I need to learn from it because I know… I hope that most of what I talk about in the book is

[01:03:33] right. But I know some of it is wrong. And I hope that most of what I talk about in the book is

[01:03:34] wrong. And I am struggling with and open to how do I create an aspirational vision for masculinity

[01:03:41] that serves as a code for young men while in no way suggesting that women need to regress,

[01:03:48] that we don’t celebrate their opportunities, and also recognizing the world has changed and we need

[01:03:54] an updated vision of masculinity. And you know what? I still haven’t figured it out is the bottom

[01:03:58] line. We’re getting there in part because you’re putting it out there. Thank you, Scott. Great to

[01:04:03] see you. Thank you, Henry.

[01:04:04] Solutions is produced by Megan Cunane. Jim Mackle is our video editor. Our theme music is by

[01:04:13] Trackademics. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media’s executive producer of podcasts. Thanks for listening to

[01:04:20] Solutions from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I’m your host, Henry Blodgett. We’ll see you soon.