Vox

Leitura de 97 min

Part One: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World

Summary

This episode of Behind the Bastards begins a deep dive into the newly released Epstein files, focusing not just on the well-documented sex crimes, but on Jeffrey Epstein’s surprising role in shaping key aspects of the modern world. The hosts introduce the vast quantity of new documents and highlight a particularly damning FBI interview implicating Donald Trump in Epstein’s activities at Mar-a-Lago.

The core thesis is that Epstein was an active player who used his influence to shift the world in new directions, particularly towards a global right-wing power grab. While publicly posing as a philanthropist, he spent his last decade building support for this movement with figures like Peter Thiel and Steve Bannon. The episode argues his radicalization stemmed from his 2008 conviction, fueling a reactionary anger against the journalists, feminists, and victims who exposed him.

The narrative then focuses on the story of Brock Pierce, a former child actor from The Mighty Ducks who becomes a central figure connecting these worlds. Pierce’s early career is traced from his acting days to co-founding the failed dot-com era company Digital Entertainment Network (DEN) with the much older Mark Collins Rector, a convicted child trafficker. The DEN mansion was the site of alleged abuse and parties attended by figures like Bryan Singer.

After fleeing to Spain with Collins Rector, Pierce later founded Internet Gaming Entertainment (IGE), a company that pioneered gold farming in games like World of Warcraft. IGE operated ‘digital sweatshops’ and used shady tactics like stolen identities. Pierce then brought in Steve Bannon as an ‘adult in the room’ to secure investment. Bannon’s experience watching gamers’ collective anger online at IGE’s practices gave him the idea to weaponize ‘rootless white males’ on the internet—a foundational insight for the modern far-right.

Finally, the episode connects Pierce back to Epstein. Pierce, involved in cryptocurrency through the Clinton Global Initiative, gave a talk at Epstein’s failed ‘Mindshift Conference’ on his private island. This presentation sparked Epstein’s interest in crypto, leading him to contact Bitcoin developer Gavin Andresen. Emails reveal that by 2012, Epstein was providing ‘girls’ to Brock Pierce in LA, cementing their relationship. The stage is set for part two, where Epstein’s crypto interests and connection to Pierce will further entangle him with the new right.

Recommendations

Companies

  • Digital Entertainment Network (DEN) — A failed dot-com era company co-founded by Brock Pierce, described as a precursor to YouTube. It was funded with $88 million and was the site of alleged sexual assaults and parties attended by figures like Bryan Singer before its collapse.
  • Internet Gaming Entertainment (IGE) — A company founded by Brock Pierce that pioneered ‘gold farming’ in MMORPGs like World of Warcraft. It operated ‘digital sweatshops’ in China and used tactics like stolen identities, prompting backlash from game developers and players.
  • Blockchain Capital — A cryptocurrency investment firm founded by Brock Pierce under the auspices of the Clinton Global Initiative, which later connected him to Jeffrey Epstein.

Concepts

  • Gold Farming — The practice, pioneered by companies like IGE, of using cheap labor (often in China) to grind for in-game currency and items in MMORPGs to sell for real money, against the terms of service of game developers.
  • Mindshift Conference — A luxury conference hosted by Jeffrey Epstein on his private island, Little St. James, organized by con man Al Seckle. It was envisioned by Epstein as a rival to TED Talks and is where Brock Pierce first connected with him.

People

  • Brock Pierce — Former child actor, co-founder of Digital Entertainment Network (DEN) and Internet Gaming Entertainment (IGE), and early cryptocurrency investor. The episode details his connections to convicted child trafficker Mark Collins Rector, Steve Bannon, and Jeffrey Epstein.
  • Steve Bannon — Former investment banker and film producer who became VP of Brock Pierce’s IGE. The episode credits his time there with giving him the insight to weaponize the anger of ‘rootless white males’ online, a strategy foundational to the modern far-right.
  • Mark Collins Rector — Co-founder of DEN with Brock Pierce, a convicted child trafficker. The episode details how he had a sexual relationship with his 16-year-old co-founder Chad Shackley and fled to Spain with Pierce and Shackley after allegations of abuse at the DEN mansion.
  • Gavin Andresen — Successor to Satoshi Nakamoto as lead maintainer of Bitcoin development. The episode notes that Jeffrey Epstein emailed him directly in 2011, trying to make contact around the time Andresen was scheduled to speak about Bitcoin to the CIA.

Topic Timeline

  • 00:00:00 — Introduction to the Epstein Files and Series Premise — Robert Evans and guest Andrew T. introduce the new series on the Epstein files. They joke about Evans’s name appearing in the files and set the expectation that the episodes will focus less on the salacious details of Epstein’s crimes and more on how he actively helped build the worst parts of the modern world, including the far-right, cryptocurrency, and the online media ecosystem.
  • 00:04:16 — The 2026 File Dump and Trump’s Direct Implication — The hosts discuss the release of three million new pages of Epstein files in 2026. They highlight Deputy AG Todd Blanche’s claim that the only delay was scanning for material implicating Trump, which they immediately counter with a damning FBI interview excerpt. The quote describes Epstein introducing a 14-year-old victim to Trump at Mar-a-Lago, with Epstein elbowing Trump and saying ‘this is a good one, right?’ to which Trump smiled and nodded.
  • 00:10:23 — Epstein’s Broad Influence on Modern Crises — Evans explains the episode’s focus: Epstein’s central role in creating the modern world’s worst elements. He lists Epstein as an ‘early domino’ in cryptocurrency’s rise, the 2008 financial crash, Gamergate, and the birth of right-wing media. The goal is to explore how Epstein helped build the media ecosystem and cultural environment that made Trump’s presidency possible, moving beyond just his direct association with Trump.
  • 00:18:33 — The Origin Story of Brock Pierce — The story shifts to Brock Pierce, a former child actor best known for The Mighty Ducks. The hosts detail his early Hollywood career, his visit to the Clinton White House at age 14, and his stated desire at that age to become a producer—a ambition Evans calls ‘sociopathic’ for a child. This sets the stage for Pierce’s troubled entry into the tech world.
  • 00:32:00 — Digital Entertainment Network and Alleged Abuse — Pierce co-founds the dot-com company Digital Entertainment Network (DEN) with Mark Collins Rector (a 40-year-old) and Chad Shackley. The hosts detail the abusive dynamic, noting Collins Rector had a sexual relationship with Shackley that began when Shackley was 16. They raised $88 million, lived in an Encino mansion, and threw parties attended by alleged sex pests like Bryan Singer. Lawsuits later alleged the three founders supplied minors with drugs and alcohol and assaulted them.
  • 00:46:37 — Flight to Spain and Discovery of Child Abuse Material — After lawsuits, Collins Rector, Shackley, and Pierce flee to Spain. In 2002, Interpol raids their Spanish home, finding weapons and thousands of pieces of child sex abuse material. Pierce claims he was unaware of the material. Collins Rector is extradited, pleads guilty, and serves a short sentence, while Pierce and Shackley are released. Pierce returns to the U.S. and settles claims against him without admitting wrongdoing.
  • 00:48:17 — Brock Pierce Founds IGE and Gold Farming — While in Spain, Pierce founds Internet Gaming Entertainment (IGE), a company that becomes infamous for gold farming in games like World of Warcraft. IGE used ‘digital sweatshops’ in China and shady tactics like using stolen U.S. identities to mask its location. The business model involved selling in-game currency for real money, which was against the rules of game developers like Blizzard, who actively fought against it.
  • 00:53:55 — Steve Bannon Joins IGE and Learns to Weaponize Gamers — Pierce brings Steve Bannon into IGE in 2005 to be the ‘adult in the room’ and secure investment. Bannon secures $60 million from Goldman Sachs. While at IGE, Bannon becomes fascinated by the collective anger of gamers who rallied against IGE in online chat rooms. He describes them as ‘rootless white males’ with ‘monster power,’ realizing this anger could be manipulated and weaponized—a key insight he would later apply in politics.
  • 01:04:01 — Brock Pierce, Cryptocurrency, and Connection to Epstein — After IGE, Pierce moves into cryptocurrency, founding Blockchain Capital. Through the Clinton Global Initiative (a connection to Epstein), he is invited to speak at Epstein’s ‘Mindshift Conference’ on his private island. Pierce’s talk on crypto intrigues Epstein, who previously saw Bitcoin as only for criminals. This sparks Epstein’s direct interest, leading him to email Bitcoin developer Gavin Andresen just before Andresen spoke to the CIA.
  • 01:15:07 — Epstein Provides ‘Girls’ to Brock Pierce — The hosts reveal a 2012 email chain where Epstein writes to Pierce: ‘[Victim names] are alone in LA. I had to leave. Please assist. Leave your girlfriend home.’ Pierce replies he broke up with his girlfriend and will help. The next day, Pierce writes: ‘I had a great time with the girls. Hope they had fun too.’ Given the context of Epstein, the hosts strongly imply these were underage victims, cementing the criminal relationship between the two men.

Episode Info

  • Podcast: Behind the Bastards
  • Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
  • Category: Society & Culture History News
  • Published: 2026-02-17T10:00:00Z
  • Duration: 01:08:16

References

Podcast Info

Transcript

[00:00:00] what’s jeffrey my epstein’s this is behind the bastards a podcast about the very worst people

[00:00:13] in all of history and as you may have guessed from my completely original introduction that

[00:00:18] i definitely haven’t done before we are back talking about jeppstein oh jeffrey epstein

[00:00:27] the big easy what yeah he’s not called by anyone yes i didn’t i didn’t love that we’re getting into

[00:00:36] the epstein files that’s that’s what these episodes are going to be uh with my good friend

[00:00:41] and colleague andrew t yeah thanks for having me are you a fan of jeffrey epstein how do you feel

[00:00:46] about the guy i mean uh he’s he’s in a photo with he is so many people just he’s on the gram with so

[00:00:53] many of my faves so right right right how to give it up

[00:00:57] you judge me

[00:00:57] by his friends i mean he’s got great friends you know obviously

[00:01:00] like half the new york times is his buddy you know

[00:01:04] this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called

[00:01:14] the red weather in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune it was

[00:01:19] nature and trees and praying and drugs so no i am not your guru

[00:01:26] and back then i was a good guy i was a good guy i was a good guy i was a good guy

[00:01:27] And I lied to everybody.

[00:01:29] They have had this case for 30 years.

[00:01:32] I’m going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

[00:01:36] Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:42] When segregation was a law, one mysterious Black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.

[00:01:48] Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[00:01:51] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:01:54] Was he a businessman? A criminal?

[00:01:56] A hero?

[00:01:58] Charlie was an example of power.

[00:02:01] They had to crush him.

[00:02:03] Charlie’s Place, from Atlas Obscura and Visit Myrtle Beach.

[00:02:06] Listen to Charlie’s Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:02:11] It’s the new me.

[00:02:12] And it’s the old them.

[00:02:14] This Woman’s History Month, the podcast, If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes,

[00:02:17] spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power.

[00:02:21] My tunnel vision of, like, I gotta achieve this,

[00:02:25] was off the strengths of, like,

[00:02:26] I want to be a woman.

[00:02:26] I want to make a better life for us.

[00:02:28] If You Knew Better brings real talk from women who’ve lived it,

[00:02:30] unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons,

[00:02:33] and the mindset shifts that changed everything.

[00:02:36] Listen to If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes

[00:02:37] on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

[00:02:40] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:02:42] Hey, it’s Alec Baldwin.

[00:02:43] This season on my podcast, Here’s the Thing,

[00:02:46] I talk to composer Mark Shaman.

[00:02:48] It’s about the hang.

[00:02:49] It’s the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you’re with.

[00:02:53] You know, Rob and I was always a great hang.

[00:02:55] And journalism.

[00:02:56] And journalist Chris Whipple.

[00:02:57] Every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing.

[00:03:01] And it’s exponentially more so in the Trump White House.

[00:03:06] Listen to the new season of Here’s the Thing on the iHeartRadio app

[00:03:10] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:03:17] I gotta come clean up at the top.

[00:03:19] I show up many times in the Epstein files.

[00:03:22] If you search for Robert Evans, you will find my name in there.

[00:03:25] A lot.

[00:03:27] You know, I have to assume that I was up to no good there.

[00:03:31] And I apologize.

[00:03:33] You apologize?

[00:03:34] After producing The Godfather, a lot of stuff got to my head.

[00:03:38] You know, I think I just kind of let fame and money drive me a little crazy, you know?

[00:03:44] That’s the great thing about you, Robert,

[00:03:46] is somehow you’re going to be known as Robert Evans, comma,

[00:03:49] somehow the lesser scumbag.

[00:03:51] Yeah, somehow the less evil Robert Evans.

[00:03:55] Yeah, somehow the Robert Evans who’s done the less drugs, too.

[00:04:00] Yeah.

[00:04:00] I think we can assume.

[00:04:01] You won’t find me in the Epstein files,

[00:04:03] and you won’t find me saying anything nice about the guy.

[00:04:07] So…

[00:04:07] No.

[00:04:08] This is not about…

[00:04:09] We’re certainly not saying anything nice about the guy.

[00:04:11] Now, the problem is, obviously, we’ve got a shitload more Epstein files, right?

[00:04:16] Right at the top, there were a bunch released in 2025.

[00:04:20] And then right at the top of 2026,

[00:04:21] Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch announced that even more were…

[00:04:25] going to be released.

[00:04:26] Specifically, he revealed that the Justice Department was releasing

[00:04:29] three million new pages of files related to the Epstein case.

[00:04:33] Such a vast quantity of information can’t be digested in short order.

[00:04:37] And we haven’t discovered all of the secrets in this tranche of files.

[00:04:42] Or in the last, the stuff that came out last year.

[00:04:44] People are still picking stuff out, right?

[00:04:47] Which is why, because it’s going to take so much time

[00:04:50] to find everything that’s noteworthy inside these files,

[00:04:54] Todd Blanch sought to set expectations prior to the file dump.

[00:04:59] So he insisted to the world that the only hang-up in getting these files out,

[00:05:03] the only thing that had delayed them past the amount of time

[00:05:05] they were legally supposed to be put up in,

[00:05:08] was that the Justice Department had to scan them

[00:05:11] to see if Epstein had said anything that criminally implicated President Trump.

[00:05:15] Older files certainly had things that could be seen as implicating Trump.

[00:05:20] Releases in 2025 included a 2020 email from a federal prosecutor

[00:05:24] stating that…

[00:05:24] stating Trump had been a passenger on the Lolita Express

[00:05:27] a minimum of eight times between 1993 and 1996.

[00:05:32] On one trip, the three listed passengers were Trump, Epstein,

[00:05:35] and a 20-year-old female, name redacted.

[00:05:38] So, like, he is certainly implicated in a lot.

[00:05:44] You’ve seen probably the birthday letter in the shape of a naked woman

[00:05:47] signed by Trump for Epstein, right?

[00:05:51] You’ve probably seen there’s a photo of Epstein

[00:05:53] and a young girl with a giant shirt.

[00:05:54] Check from Donald Trump.

[00:05:56] You’ve certainly heard the rumors that he and Bill Clinton

[00:05:59] may have engaged in some oral sex together.

[00:06:01] That was almost certainly Jeffrey Epstein joking around

[00:06:04] rather than something that literally happened.

[00:06:06] But a lot of crazy shit is in these files that literally happened.

[00:06:11] And probably the single worst piece of data I have seen

[00:06:14] from an implicating-the-president point of view

[00:06:16] is this paragraph from an FBI interview with a victim of Epstein’s.

[00:06:20] I’ll read it in a second, but it’s particularly funny

[00:06:23] when you pair it with this statement,

[00:06:24] so here’s Todd Blanche first.

[00:06:27] In none of these communications,

[00:06:29] even when doing his best to disparage President Trump,

[00:06:32] did Epstein suggest President Trump had done anything criminal

[00:06:35] or had any inappropriate contact with any of his victims?

[00:06:39] Now, I’m going to read you a quote from the FBI.

[00:06:43] During one of Jane Doe’s encounters with Epstein,

[00:06:46] he took her to Mar-a-Lago,

[00:06:47] where he introduced her to its owner, Donald J. Trump.

[00:06:49] Introducing 14-year-old Doe to Donald J. Trump,

[00:06:52] Epstein elbowed Trump playfully,

[00:06:54] asking him,

[00:06:54] referring to Doe,

[00:06:56] this is a good one, right?

[00:06:58] Trump smiled and nodded in agreement.

[00:07:00] They both chuckled and Doe felt uncomfortable,

[00:07:02] but at the time was too young to understand why.

[00:07:05] Yeah, that’s fucking hideous.

[00:07:09] That’s just disgusting.

[00:07:11] I’m going to say ew a lot on these episodes, but ew.

[00:07:14] The thing that I don’t understand is like,

[00:07:18] what did Trump think was going to happen when these came out?

[00:07:22] Like, was he just riffing?

[00:07:23] Did he think that someone was actually going to go and falsify and redact shit so thoroughly?

[00:07:29] I think he thought, first off,

[00:07:31] I can just brute force this not getting released.

[00:07:33] It hadn’t been earlier.

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:35] And I’m sure when it became clear that like,

[00:07:40] they literally could not politically afford not to release these,

[00:07:43] like not even just the legal stuff,

[00:07:45] like their base would have clipped out if they hadn’t released this stuff.

[00:07:49] Because of how central the Epstein files are to the conspirators,

[00:07:53] to the editorial right, too.

[00:07:55] I think at that point, he just probably and probably was reassured by his people.

[00:08:00] Look, man, you literally could shoot a guy in Central Park

[00:08:03] and your base will stand behind you.

[00:08:05] You’ll be OK.

[00:08:06] And maybe he will, you know?

[00:08:07] Yeah, I guess it’s definitely hurting him, but not that much, you know?

[00:08:12] We’re in the midst of seeing.

[00:08:13] But it is like, I’m just like, dog, you knew what was in there, right?

[00:08:18] Like, why would you stoke this?

[00:08:21] Because that’s the thing.

[00:08:22] He did continue to stoke this.

[00:08:23] Yeah.

[00:08:23] Stoke this fire.

[00:08:24] And it’s like, he sure did.

[00:08:27] Because I think he thought he’d be able to have more control.

[00:08:30] They it’s also very sloppy.

[00:08:32] They very sloppily tried.

[00:08:33] Like one person that I saw on Blue Sky pointed out,

[00:08:37] there’s a lot of don’ts that are censored in the files, like the word don’t.

[00:08:42] And the only reason for that is because, like, someone just went through

[00:08:45] and did like automatically any use of like Dawn T,

[00:08:49] like they just start blanking out that whole thing, right?

[00:08:52] So there’s stuff like there’s a lot of.

[00:08:53] Really like lazy attempts to and they’ve they’ve uploaded some stuff

[00:08:58] and then pulled it back down.

[00:09:01] There’s all sorts of stuff like that, right?

[00:09:03] Yeah.

[00:09:03] I think in terms of the stuff that is most powerful to me, right?

[00:09:08] It is that the quote I just read you in part.

[00:09:11] If you’ve seen there’s footage, Sophie, you’ll play it right now.

[00:09:14] There’s some NBC archival footage of a 1992 party

[00:09:18] where Trump and Epstein hung out together is a decent chance you’ve seen it online.

[00:09:22] And it’s just the two.

[00:09:23] You can’t even.

[00:09:23] Hear what they’re saying, really.

[00:09:25] But the two are like pointing it and talking about women and like laughing to each other

[00:09:30] and the body language in that scene, which which should be playing right now.

[00:09:35] If you read back over that statement with like Epstein elbowing Trump

[00:09:39] and being like, this is a good one, right?

[00:09:40] And Trump smiled and nodding and they’re both laughing.

[00:09:43] It’s the same like you can you can see a moment like that between them in this footage.

[00:09:49] Like that’s part of why I believe this is literally.

[00:09:53] True.

[00:09:54] Like is because we have other evidence of them hanging out together.

[00:09:58] That sounds exactly like this.

[00:10:00] Doing shit like.

[00:10:01] Well, because it’s also just like it’s just a pedophile frat house.

[00:10:04] Yeah, right, right.

[00:10:05] It’s just like once when you like kind of get the tenor of it, none of it’s like surprising, really.

[00:10:11] You’re like, yeah, of course, these people act like this.

[00:10:14] I guess like the the amount of emails they sent is a little surprising.

[00:10:18] Sure, you get at also, by the way, why?

[00:10:23] I have focused the episodes the way I focus them, because as you’ve noted, there’s a ton of I mean, there’s there’s there’s so much here, right?

[00:10:31] For one thing, like that you could I could do episodes all year on this and not run out of content.

[00:10:36] There’s so much fucking shit in here.

[00:10:39] But a lot of it is just OK.

[00:10:41] Yeah, the pedophiles told another gross pedophile joke.

[00:10:44] He and his pedophile friends continue to be nasty with each other.

[00:10:48] That’s not surprising.

[00:10:49] What’s really surprising to me is the number of things that Epstein has been.

[00:10:53] Revealed to have been central to that created the modern world everywhere.

[00:10:58] Yeah, I made a post earlier that was a little inaccurate that Jeffrey Epstein Jeffrey Epstein was the first domino for fucking like cryptocurrency for like for like the modern like the cryptocurrency in like it’s modern attached to the far right since he was like a starting domino for Gamergate.

[00:11:23] He was a starting domino for the fucking 2008 financial crash.

[00:11:29] Like there’s all sorts of shit.

[00:11:31] And he’s he’s also deeply implicated in like the growth and birth of right wing media.

[00:11:35] Right.

[00:11:35] Including sharing a lot of like fucking really kind of fringe at the time far right like podcasts and articles with his with his friends.

[00:11:44] Like he was he helped create the modern far right.

[00:11:48] And he helped ruin the Internet in a lot of ways.

[00:11:51] And there’s a good garbage day column on that.

[00:11:53] But what?

[00:11:53] We’re going to be focusing on how Epstein built the modern world or helped to build the modern world like his influence on particularly development of the far right and like cryptocurrency and the far like the online media ecosystem that has like fed into the far right, particularly for Chan.

[00:12:14] That’s what these episodes are about is like how Jeffrey Epstein built the worst parts of the modern world because he was shot.

[00:12:20] He was even more influential than we knew.

[00:12:22] There’s been a lot.

[00:12:23] That that surprised me in these files, like stuff that I just would not have guessed was the case here.

[00:12:32] Do you think, though, there’s an element of just sort of like right place, right time?

[00:12:35] Like he’s talking about these things in a way that is like, but like kind of like, yes, we’re looking at the private communications of billionaires and right far right.

[00:12:46] And I mean, I’m just like I’m like, there’s probably a world where it’s all like this, maybe throughout history.

[00:12:52] Like Reagan’s letters.

[00:12:55] I think that you’re throughout history.

[00:12:58] There have always been like this has always been how a lot of things have gotten done.

[00:13:04] A lot of the sausage is made like politically, like like this is how in every society you have groups of elites who are all creepy friends and are all probably having creepy sex, often with underage people.

[00:13:17] And, you know, through their like petty bigotries and rivalries.

[00:13:22] And whatnot, making policy that affects millions and millions of lives.

[00:13:26] Right.

[00:13:26] That’s that’s always been the case.

[00:13:28] And, you know, when I said that Jeffrey was the first domino, that’s not entirely accurate for any of those things, except maybe for Gamergate.

[00:13:38] But he was like an early domino in all of these.

[00:13:42] Sure.

[00:13:42] And so, yeah, it’s one of these like you have to you have to be.

[00:13:49] I don’t want to frame it as like Epstein started.

[00:13:52] Any of these things or was the only idea is the guy who created microtransactions in video games.

[00:13:57] That’s not really accurate, but he he heavily influenced the development of microtransactions in video games because he was talking up the idea and pushing it to a lot of influential friends in the industry.

[00:14:08] And that’s generally how stuff worked with Epstein.

[00:14:10] Right.

[00:14:11] Yeah.

[00:14:11] I mean, with the exception of the financial crash stuff is.

[00:14:15] Yeah.

[00:14:15] Is a little wonkier.

[00:14:17] It’s interesting because like when you list those things, I might my like without knowing that this was the.

[00:14:22] Topic, I instantly think like Steve Bannon as well.

[00:14:26] And he was close with Bannon.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:28] And so it’s just like motherfucker was everywhere.

[00:14:34] Yeah.

[00:14:34] And it’s sort of just like the question to me is like, is is the causality like does being a pedophile make you more of a make turn you into a right wing freak or just being a right wing freak turn you into a pedophile?

[00:14:47] Well, this is and we’ll talk about this.

[00:14:49] I kind of think what happened.

[00:14:52] What?

[00:14:53] I said chicken or the egg.

[00:14:55] Oh, sorry.

[00:14:56] OK.

[00:14:57] Yeah.

[00:14:58] I kind of think when it comes to answering that question, I think Epstein, like Trump, like a lot of these guys, was socially someone that you would have pegged as more of like a liberal or progressive based on the causes he supported and the people he hung out with most of his life.

[00:15:14] But it’s primarily a guy who’s interested in his own personal power and wealth.

[00:15:18] And a lot of his rightward turn came after his conviction and his.

[00:15:22] Jail sentence in like 2008, 2009.

[00:15:25] And after that, he’s increasingly angry and increasingly reactionary.

[00:15:29] And that’s a lot of these guys get on the right.

[00:15:31] He’s a big cancel culture guy.

[00:15:33] He’s freaked out by me, too.

[00:15:35] Right.

[00:15:35] So that’s a big factor in why he goes far.

[00:15:38] Right.

[00:15:39] I don’t think him being a pedophile has much ideologically other than unfortunately, as we’ve seen, a lot of powerful men want to have sex with 15 and 16 year old girls.

[00:15:50] Right.

[00:15:51] And that’s not.

[00:15:52] That’s not a left or a right wing thing.

[00:15:54] You know, it’s not even just a politics thing.

[00:15:56] Fucking priests and cops and whatnot.

[00:15:59] All like, you know, powerful people molest kids, you know, sometimes, but in part because if you want to molest kids, getting into a position of power makes it a lot easier to do that.

[00:16:12] Right.

[00:16:12] Yeah.

[00:16:12] Yeah.

[00:16:12] It’s one of the incidental like.

[00:16:15] Yeah.

[00:16:15] If that’s your goal, power is a good way to achieve it.

[00:16:19] Power also achieves other things.

[00:16:20] But yeah.

[00:16:21] Right.

[00:16:22] Yeah.

[00:16:22] Yeah.

[00:16:22] The logical funnel.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:25] And, you know, when it comes to because we’ll be talking a little bit about Trump in these episodes, but he’s not.

[00:16:32] It’s more how Epstein helped like build and prepare like the media ecosystem and the cultural like ideological environment to make Trump’s presidency possible.

[00:16:44] Like his contribution to that is more interesting to me in these episodes than like what Trump was involved in with Epstein, which is why I.

[00:16:52] I kind of started the episode by pointing that out, but I’m not going to we’re not going to be covering that heavily because you can find that in a bunch of places and anyone who’s not an idiot knows that Donald Trump was deeply involved in Epstein.

[00:17:04] And if he didn’t have sex with underage girls, Epstein was trafficking, then he had sex with adults that Epstein was illegally trafficking.

[00:17:12] Right.

[00:17:12] Like, I don’t like I don’t know who he had sex with, but it wasn’t good.

[00:17:17] Right.

[00:17:17] Yeah.

[00:17:18] So, yeah, these episodes are going to be.

[00:17:22] About what we’ve learned about Jeffrey Epstein and everyone else, because the horrifying truth hidden at the center of the revealed Epstein files is that Jeffrey wasn’t just a pedophile financier who knew the secrets of the elite.

[00:17:32] He was a player himself, and he actively used his influence and clout and money to shift the world in new directions.

[00:17:38] And despite his public persona as a philanthropist who hung out with scientists and philosophers and a lot of left coded kinds of people, he spent the last decade of his life building support for a global right wing power grab with people like Peter Thiel and Steve.

[00:17:52] And this power grab succeeded.

[00:17:54] It left him behind, but he lived to see it come to fruition, which you can tell was very frustrating to him that, like, I helped I helped make this all possible.

[00:18:05] And yet I’m not going to benefit from the impunity that I can see going to other people.

[00:18:12] So I went back and forth as to where we were going to start with with these episodes.

[00:18:16] Which of the reveals do we begin with?

[00:18:18] Because there’s so many players, so many different people who are important.

[00:18:22] And implicated with Epstein that it’s impossible to not leave some stuff out.

[00:18:26] But I think the story I want to tell this week is going to flow best if I start with the tale of a little feller named Brock Pierce.

[00:18:33] Have you heard of Brock?

[00:18:35] No, no, no.

[00:18:36] OK, good.

[00:18:37] I have.

[00:18:39] You’re going to be you’re going to you’re going to recognize him in a second here.

[00:18:41] Unfortunately, you really are.

[00:18:43] You really, really are.

[00:18:45] But November 14th, 1980, Brock Jeffrey Pierce, another Jeffrey, came into this world in Minneapolis.

[00:18:51] Minnesota, the city even now in the crosshairs of a fascist movement that at least partly exists through the consequences of Brock’s actions.

[00:18:59] There was little sign of this in his early life.

[00:19:01] However, his parents seemed to want him to have a career in Hollywood.

[00:19:05] It’s unclear to me how much they pushed their son and how much he genuinely wanted that for himself.

[00:19:10] Pierce has described himself as a simple hockey loving boy from Minnesota when at age three he started acting in commercials.

[00:19:18] This wound up building to his big shot.

[00:19:21] A supporting role in the first Mighty Ducks movie.

[00:19:24] So he was in the Mighty Ducks.

[00:19:26] He was one of the stars of the Mighty Ducks.

[00:19:28] Yeah.

[00:19:29] Yeah.

[00:19:29] You like those movies as a kid?

[00:19:31] I seemed I think I did.

[00:19:33] I think so.

[00:19:34] Right.

[00:19:35] The second one taught me the difference between Iceland and Greenland.

[00:19:38] You know, I remember it.

[00:19:41] You know, I was probably nitpicking hockey formations a little bit.

[00:19:44] The Flying V is not so good.

[00:19:47] Mm hmm.

[00:19:48] I guess.

[00:19:49] Sure.

[00:19:49] I don’t know much about hockey other than I like physicality.

[00:19:51] It’s just fights.

[00:19:52] If you’re too young to have seen the Mighty Ducks movies and you don’t understand what Andrew and I are talking about, they’re a series.

[00:19:58] I think there’s a trilogy.

[00:20:00] Ultimately, I’m probably straight to DVD.

[00:20:03] There’s a bunch.

[00:20:04] Who knows how many there are.

[00:20:05] Right.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:06] There’s there’s several of these movies and they’re all kind of about a peewee hockey team from the Twin Cities area that isn’t very good.

[00:20:13] Right.

[00:20:13] It’s a bad team.

[00:20:14] And then an attorney named no shit.

[00:20:17] Gordon Bombay gets sentenced to community service and winds up.

[00:20:21] Coaching them and yada, yada, yada.

[00:20:23] You’ve seen one underdog sports team movie.

[00:20:24] You’ve seen them all.

[00:20:25] Right.

[00:20:25] You know where this basically goes.

[00:20:26] Right.

[00:20:27] It’s kind of a it’s this is essentially it’s kind of a hockey ripoff of Bad News Bears a little bit.

[00:20:32] Right.

[00:20:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:20:34] You know, without without the the charisma of the raw, unbridled charisma of Walter Matthau.

[00:20:40] God, what a champion.

[00:20:43] I mean, it’s it’s Emilio Estevez, I think.

[00:20:46] Right.

[00:20:47] And also, yeah, Bombay.

[00:20:48] If I recall.

[00:20:49] Yeah.

[00:20:50] He’s doing.

[00:20:50] What a name.

[00:20:51] He’s he got he got busted for drunk driving.

[00:20:54] Right.

[00:20:55] Right.

[00:20:55] Right.

[00:20:55] Right.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:56] He’s Gordon when he has to do it.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:59] Gordon Bombay.

[00:21:00] Yeah.

[00:21:02] So the Mighty Ducks premise was strong enough to sustain a trilogy, which no critics consider

[00:21:07] to be basically the hockey children’s hockey equivalent to the Lord of the Rings.

[00:21:11] Brock’s career spanned 13 years as an actor, and it culminated in the 1996 film First Kid,

[00:21:18] where Pierce played the president’s son.

[00:21:20] During the movie’s release, he got to visit the White House and even sit in President Clinton’s

[00:21:24] chair in the Oval Office.

[00:21:26] Here’s a photo with him and comedy legend Sinbad.

[00:21:29] Look at that.

[00:21:30] Look at them together.

[00:21:31] Look at that.

[00:21:32] Honestly, honestly, pretty sick.

[00:21:34] Pretty cool.

[00:21:34] Pretty cool as a kid to get to take photos in the Oval Office with fucking Sinbad.

[00:21:39] Yeah.

[00:21:39] I like that color blue carpet.

[00:21:42] It’s a nice blue carpet.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:44] If you need a description of this photo, I would say Brock looked sort of like the Sam’s

[00:21:48] Club brand Macaulay Culkin.

[00:21:50] And I don’t know how to describe Sinbad to you.

[00:21:52] That would be like explaining the sun to an earthworm, right?

[00:21:56] Yeah.

[00:21:56] Anyway, Brock was 14 at the time of this visit, and per an AOL interview by Sean Newman, he

[00:22:02] was, quote,

[00:22:03] thinking about leaving acting, determined to carve his own path as a Hollywood producer,

[00:22:08] which is an ambitious dream to have as a 14-year-old.

[00:22:11] Yeah.

[00:22:12] No offense, kid.

[00:22:13] If your dream is to be a producer at 14, something is straight up wrong with you.

[00:22:19] You can get it.

[00:22:20] You can get drugs if you stay an actor.

[00:22:22] Yes, of course.

[00:22:24] But, like, again, going back to Robert Evans, if you really want the high-grade cocaine,

[00:22:29] you’ve got to be a big league producer.

[00:22:31] I’m just saying, recognizing power in that way at 14 and wanting power only is sociopathic.

[00:22:40] I mean, it’s like, I get, like, producing can be a really cool job and stuff.

[00:22:45] Like, I get why people want to do it.

[00:22:46] It’s just weird for a 14-year-old who’s already an actor to be like, no, producing.

[00:22:50] No, no.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] No.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] 14’s a time.

[00:22:51] Because that means he’s met producers.

[00:22:53] Right.

[00:22:54] And been like, no, that guy.

[00:22:56] And, again, it wouldn’t be weird if he was like, no, I think I want to be a director

[00:22:58] more.

[00:22:59] It’s like, yeah, you’ve been in a couple of movies.

[00:23:01] That’s enough to know that you want to be behind the camera or whatever.

[00:23:03] But producer, that’s a weird dream.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:06] Now, I find this dream noteworthy for a couple of reasons.

[00:23:10] One, it takes some pretty unmitigated gall to decide at 14, I think I’m done acting.

[00:23:15] It’s time to run shit.

[00:23:17] Right?

[00:23:17] Yeah.

[00:23:17] Yeah.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:18] That’s a crazy.

[00:23:20] Thing.

[00:23:21] And it’s impossible for me to know how accurate Brock’s later analysis of his own thinking

[00:23:26] was.

[00:23:26] But this sounds to me like a kid who was forced to grow up way too fast.

[00:23:30] Remember, he’s a child actor.

[00:23:32] And I don’t have enough detail about his childhood to know that his parents push him.

[00:23:36] Was it an abusive situation?

[00:23:38] But it’s rarely a good one, especially in the 90s.

[00:23:42] I think things are a little better now.

[00:23:44] But it’s rarely good.

[00:23:47] The times I’ve worked with kid actors.

[00:23:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:50] I watch it, and I’m like, I don’t know.

[00:23:53] I don’t know if this is good for them.

[00:23:55] I remember talking to a friend of mine who is like a working class director.

[00:24:00] You know, not like a fucking giant Hollywood guy, but like a buddy of mine who like is

[00:24:06] a director who said that, no, like you have someone on staff when you have child actors

[00:24:12] whose job is basically to protect them from their parents to make sure their parents aren’t

[00:24:17] pushing them too much.

[00:24:18] Right?

[00:24:19] The whole thing.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:20] It’s really weird.

[00:24:21] It’s a weird dynamic.

[00:24:23] It’s a weird dynamic.

[00:24:24] Again, I think a lot better now in part because of how bad shit was for a lot of child actors

[00:24:29] in the 80s and 90s.

[00:24:31] But even now, I’m just like, now that I see this, and I’ve seen it a little bit, like

[00:24:37] when I now I’m like, oh, I get why everyone on Saved by the Bell was like 28.

[00:24:42] Like, that’s actually better for them as human beings.

[00:24:44] It’s probably fine.

[00:24:45] We should just like suspend our disbelief a little bit and let adults play teenagers.

[00:24:50] Because the alternative is fucked.

[00:24:52] It’s so bad for the people, I think.

[00:24:54] Yeah.

[00:24:55] Yeah.

[00:24:55] And for an idea of like how fast Brock has had to grow up, this is him talking about

[00:25:01] himself as a 14-year-old and his attitude.

[00:25:03] I took a look at my life and I asked myself, is this what I want to be doing?

[00:25:07] Is this my calling?

[00:25:08] I said, no, I don’t really want to be reading other people’s scripts.

[00:25:11] I don’t want to be a performer.

[00:25:13] I want to write my own script.

[00:25:14] I want to be the director of my own life.

[00:25:16] And I get that.

[00:25:17] But it’s also like most 14-year-olds aren’t in a position.

[00:25:20] Where they’re like, is this really what I want to be doing with my life?

[00:25:22] Because they’re 14, you know?

[00:25:24] Yeah.

[00:25:24] So that says something just about where this kid’s head is.

[00:25:29] You know whose head is in a good place?

[00:25:32] Mine?

[00:25:33] Our sponsors.

[00:25:35] Oh.

[00:25:38] Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology,

[00:25:44] natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

[00:25:48] And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[00:25:49] The other one?

[00:25:50] The other one?

[00:25:50] An Irish traveler said when I was 16, you’re going to have a terrible time with men.

[00:25:55] Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.

[00:26:00] Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

[00:26:04] And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood.

[00:26:09] A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[00:26:15] He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms,

[00:26:18] on different houses, in different places.

[00:26:20] But just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.

[00:26:23] If you’re navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading

[00:26:28] artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen.

[00:26:35] Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:26:40] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:26:43] I’m Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC’s The Bachelor.

[00:26:48] Unfortunately, it didn’t go according to plan.

[00:26:52] He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected.

[00:26:56] The internet turned on him.

[00:26:58] If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[00:27:00] But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines.

[00:27:06] It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom,

[00:27:09] with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

[00:27:13] The media is here. This case has gone viral.

[00:27:16] The dating contract.

[00:27:17] Agree to date.

[00:27:18] But I’m also suing you.

[00:27:20] Please search for it.

[00:27:22] This is unlike anything I’ve ever seen before.

[00:27:25] I’m Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

[00:27:28] This season, an epic battle of he said, she said,

[00:27:32] and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

[00:27:36] I have done nothing except get pregnant by the Bachelor.

[00:27:40] Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:27:43] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:27:48] Hey, I’m Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

[00:27:53] I’m joined by Luke Combs, award-winning country music artist,

[00:27:57] and one of the most authentic voices in music today.

[00:28:00] Luke opens up about success, self-doubt, mental health,

[00:28:03] and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight.

[00:28:09] I hate fame. I hate the word celebrity. I hate those words.

[00:28:12] They make me uncomfortable.

[00:28:13] But I think when you get to a certain point, the fame or the success or the influence,

[00:28:17] it just extends.

[00:28:18] It accentuates and exacerbates the inherent person that you are.

[00:28:22] The guy that says he’s always going to be there and that will do anything to be there

[00:28:26] is the only guy that’s not there.

[00:28:28] I’m in Australia when Bo was born.

[00:28:30] My whole identity is that no matter what,

[00:28:34] I’m going to prioritize my wife and my children over my job.

[00:28:38] I dread the conversation with my son.

[00:28:40] What do you think you’d say?

[00:28:43] Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:28:47] Apple Podcasts,

[00:28:48] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:28:50] Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about sorority life,

[00:28:53] the good, the bad, and the sisterhood.

[00:28:55] With your hosts, me, Gia Giudice,

[00:28:58] Daisy Kent,

[00:28:59] and Jennifer Kessler.

[00:29:00] Rush, the recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life

[00:29:04] has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[00:29:09] Is it really a supportive sisterhood that’s simply misunderstood?

[00:29:11] Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country?

[00:29:15] In this podcast, we pledge to peel back

[00:29:18] the layers and spell out the truth one Greek letter at a time.

[00:29:21] Pledges and actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers.

[00:29:25] Some call it the best time of their life, while others say it’s a nightmare.

[00:29:29] From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals.

[00:29:32] What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega?

[00:29:36] We’re taking you inside Sorority Row, including the chapter room,

[00:29:40] as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies.

[00:29:43] Let’s get dirty.

[00:29:44] Listen to Dirty Rush on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:29:47] Apple Podcasts,

[00:29:48] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:29:53] We’re back.

[00:29:55] You know, to make Sophie happy,

[00:29:57] I have stopped accusing our sponsors like the good people at

[00:30:00] of committing crimes against humanity,

[00:30:03] even though they did murder those kids.

[00:30:04] So, you’re welcome, Sophie.

[00:30:06] In self-defense.

[00:30:07] In self-defense.

[00:30:08] Those kids were coming at them, you know?

[00:30:11] Those children were complaining about being forced to pick berries all day.

[00:30:14] You know, what was supposed to do?

[00:30:16] I simply cannot defend.

[00:30:18] Which is why this is like an unfair argument.

[00:30:22] I know, I know, I know.

[00:30:23] And we’re still going to bleep the name out for all of these.

[00:30:25] It’s going to be great.

[00:30:26] So, for the next…

[00:30:26] Quite a choice for old producer Sophie here.

[00:30:29] For old producer Sophie.

[00:30:30] You’ve got Brock’s dream job, Sophie.

[00:30:33] I just want everybody to have like health insurance and like housing

[00:30:36] and like some form of financial stability.

[00:30:41] That’s not what Brock wants at age 14.

[00:30:46] So, Brock has his…

[00:30:48] He has a crisis of confidence at 14,

[00:30:50] but he keeps working for about a year and a half,

[00:30:52] almost two years after this point.

[00:30:54] You know, he films 1997’s Legends of the Lost Tomb,

[00:30:57] where an adult apparently pulled a prank on him

[00:30:59] and told him he had permission to carve his name onto a pyramid

[00:31:02] while they filmed in Egypt.

[00:31:04] Brock would later admit,

[00:31:05] it almost feels kind of wrong.

[00:31:06] And it certainly was.

[00:31:08] You are not supposed to do that to the pyramids.

[00:31:10] Did he do it?

[00:31:10] Jesus Christ.

[00:31:12] Did he do that?

[00:31:12] Yeah, apparently.

[00:31:13] He was 14.

[00:31:14] Again, he’s 14 and an adult told him he could.

[00:31:16] Like, it’s not his fault.

[00:31:18] There’s a lot that’s his fault in this story,

[00:31:19] but I won’t really blame that on him.

[00:31:22] He filmed his last three movies in 1998.

[00:31:24] 16-year-old Brock Pierce left the acting world entirely after this point.

[00:31:28] Now, he had become an early internet nerd.

[00:31:31] He loves gaming.

[00:31:32] He’s a big gamer as a kid.

[00:31:33] And he’s, you know, pretty early on the internet train.

[00:31:35] And he’s got the good sense and intuition

[00:31:37] to know that the internet’s going to play a major role

[00:31:40] in the future of entertainment.

[00:31:41] So, he co-founds a company,

[00:31:43] Digital Entertainment Network,

[00:31:45] or D-E-N,

[00:31:46] with two other founders.

[00:31:48] Mark Collins Rector and Chad Shackley.

[00:31:52] D-E-N, as we’ll call it,

[00:31:53] is most often described as a precursor or prelude to YouTube.

[00:31:57] Brock says it failed because the technology wasn’t ready.

[00:32:00] Basically, streaming video,

[00:32:01] you just couldn’t stream video well enough back in the 90s.

[00:32:04] And this is, you know, pretty much true.

[00:32:06] And that puts D-E-N in…

[00:32:09] Some people give him too much credit to be like,

[00:32:11] he knew YouTube was the future before anyone else did.

[00:32:14] Now, a number of people tried.

[00:32:16] Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:17] There were a few different failed YouTube precursors

[00:32:20] that just didn’t quite work

[00:32:21] because, again, the tech wasn’t there.

[00:32:24] This was…

[00:32:25] D-E-N was one of a number of dot-com era failures,

[00:32:28] a number of companies that kind of reached for that brass ring

[00:32:30] just a few years too early.

[00:32:32] And it’s worth looking at exactly what Brock

[00:32:35] and his friends wanted to create, though,

[00:32:37] how they were, like, billing this.

[00:32:38] The company had a 38-page manifesto

[00:32:41] written by Collins Rector,

[00:32:42] who seems to have been the lead visionary.

[00:32:45] Part of it read,

[00:32:45] the boob-tube zombie,

[00:32:47] television is dead.

[00:32:48] Global entertainment will be delivered over the internet.

[00:32:51] Digital entertainment network will create the last network.

[00:32:55] And so you can see this mix of,

[00:32:56] you couldn’t see that as prescient,

[00:32:58] like, but also very wrong

[00:33:00] because we’re still just watching TV over the internet.

[00:33:04] And it didn’t create the last network.

[00:33:07] There’s a shitload of streaming sites.

[00:33:08] It kind of looked for a while like Netflix was becoming that,

[00:33:11] but there’s so fucking many streaming sites right now, right?

[00:33:14] Like, that’s not even what happened.

[00:33:17] So, Collins Rector was 40,

[00:33:20] and the oldest and most experienced

[00:33:21] of the group of founders at Den.

[00:33:23] And this is where we get into things being very problematic.

[00:33:26] And this is maybe something that Brock

[00:33:29] has sort of been raised to not see as weird,

[00:33:32] but Collins Rector is 40 years old.

[00:33:36] Chad, who is Collins Rector’s roommate, is 24.

[00:33:40] And the two had met on bulletin boards,

[00:33:43] whereas the LA Times writes, quote,

[00:33:44] he, Collins Rector,

[00:33:46] apparently used,

[00:33:47] to strike up relationships

[00:33:48] with at least two teenaged boys.

[00:33:51] Right.

[00:33:52] Cool.

[00:33:53] The two moved in together when Shackley was 16,

[00:33:57] and Collins Rector would have been in his mid-30s.

[00:33:59] Ew.

[00:34:01] Shackley’s parents seemed to have thought

[00:34:03] that this was mostly a business arrangement,

[00:34:05] that they were just, like, you know,

[00:34:07] founders and starting a company,

[00:34:08] and, well, we don’t want to get in the way of our son.

[00:34:11] This was a sexual relationship.

[00:34:14] Like, this is a…

[00:34:15] Parents, what the fuck?

[00:34:17] There’s bad…

[00:34:17] I mean, I say sexual relationship,

[00:34:19] this is rape, you know?

[00:34:20] He’s 16.

[00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:22] The parents, end quote,

[00:34:24] thought it was a business arrangement.

[00:34:26] Do let your child…

[00:34:27] That’s all I’ve read about it.

[00:34:28] …move in with a grown man.

[00:34:31] Bad.

[00:34:31] It seems like a bad judgment, I’ll say that.

[00:34:35] Sorry.

[00:34:35] This is the only thing I could shake.

[00:34:38] So Brock gets involved with these guys

[00:34:40] when Shackley’s 24, and Brock is 17.

[00:34:43] So at 17, Brock is in business

[00:34:45] with a 40-year-old and a 20-year-old.

[00:34:47] A 24-year-old.

[00:34:48] Yeah, starting this company,

[00:34:50] and he moves into them.

[00:34:52] They’ve got a mansion, as we’ll talk about,

[00:34:54] and he moves in with these guys.

[00:34:56] No.

[00:34:57] Shortly before Din seeks its first round of funding.

[00:35:00] Now, Din gets a lot of interest.

[00:35:02] Again, this is the dot-com boom.

[00:35:04] Venture capitalists are throwing a shitload of money

[00:35:07] in a bunch of dumb places.

[00:35:09] It attracts about $88 million in funding,

[00:35:12] including money from actor Fred Savage

[00:35:14] and $5 million from former U.S.

[00:35:17] Representative Michael Huffington.

[00:35:19] What?

[00:35:20] I mean, they were just…

[00:35:21] Everyone who had a concept like this gets $5 million,

[00:35:24] and one of them becomes YouTube.

[00:35:26] That’s their lottery ticket.

[00:35:27] Right, exactly.

[00:35:27] That’s their hedge.

[00:35:28] That is basically what happened, right?

[00:35:30] And this was one of the bad bets,

[00:35:31] although they got $88 million.

[00:35:34] Yeah.

[00:35:35] So this was enough to pay for this $88 million.

[00:35:38] Pays for about a two-year wild ride

[00:35:40] for Pierce and his co-founders.

[00:35:42] They all live together in a 12,000-square-foot mansion

[00:35:44] in Encino.

[00:35:45] They all drive sports cars.

[00:35:46] They throw these massive parties

[00:35:48] that celebrities show up to,

[00:35:50] that they bill as work events.

[00:35:51] Basically, no, these parties are part of the business, right?

[00:35:54] We’ve got to build…

[00:35:55] You know, we’ve got to make ourselves

[00:35:56] part of the culture in Hollywood, right?

[00:35:58] Like, that’s kind of the argument they’re making.

[00:36:00] But you’re not in Hollywood.

[00:36:02] You’re in Encino.

[00:36:04] You’re in Encino, yeah.

[00:36:05] To be fair, this is the business model

[00:36:07] of many businesses.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:09] Right.

[00:36:10] So they’re not quite outliers, really.

[00:36:14] Right.

[00:36:15] They’re not out…

[00:36:16] Like, this is how Uber starts, right?

[00:36:18] They’re not doing it in Hollywood.

[00:36:19] They’re up in the Valley,

[00:36:20] but they have, like,

[00:36:21] their big party house mansion, right?

[00:36:23] Yeah.

[00:36:23] And they’re arguing that, like,

[00:36:24] well, these wild parties

[00:36:25] where a lot of people get sexually assaulted

[00:36:27] are a crucial part of the business.

[00:36:29] Yeah.

[00:36:30] Yeah.

[00:36:30] Which is prescient to their eventual business,

[00:36:33] I suppose, but…

[00:36:34] Right.

[00:36:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:35] A warning to us, maybe.

[00:36:37] For the LA Times, quote,

[00:36:38] in his manifesto crafted to energize early employees,

[00:36:41] Collins Rector set his sights on segments

[00:36:43] of so-called Generation Y

[00:36:45] that he said were being ignored

[00:36:46] by mainstream television and movies.

[00:36:48] He identified punk rockers,

[00:36:49] extreme skaters,

[00:36:50] and hip-hoppers

[00:36:51] and put gay teenagers

[00:36:53] at the top of the list.

[00:36:54] The company would build a huge market

[00:36:56] by global casting

[00:36:57] to a narrow cast audience, he vowed.

[00:37:00] Now, here you can see

[00:37:00] some actual insight, right?

[00:37:02] I mean, it’s ridiculous

[00:37:03] calling them hip-hoppers.

[00:37:04] That shows a deep disconnect

[00:37:06] with at least a chunk of pop culture.

[00:37:09] But pointing out that, like,

[00:37:11] the future of media

[00:37:13] is going to be catering

[00:37:14] to these, like, really narrow groups,

[00:37:16] of fandoms, of subcultures,

[00:37:19] is, like, that is a legitimate insight, right?

[00:37:22] That is, that did turn out

[00:37:23] to be a major part of the future of media, right?

[00:37:26] And the fact that they seem to know, like,

[00:37:28] reach, and because he is a 40-year-old man

[00:37:31] who is molesting teenage boys,

[00:37:33] it’s all, it’s dark that he’s also

[00:37:36] focusing on gay teenage stories.

[00:37:38] But that is,

[00:37:40] a lot of very successful media

[00:37:42] in the 21st century

[00:37:43] is queer people telling queer stories, right?

[00:37:46] Yeah.

[00:37:46] Like, there’s a degree of understanding

[00:37:48] of where the media is going

[00:37:49] that’s also mixed with

[00:37:50] deeply fucked-up abusive stuff

[00:37:53] about this guy, Collins Rector.

[00:37:54] Well, it’s like, it’s just,

[00:37:56] this guy got to where he was

[00:37:57] because his self-serving thing

[00:37:59] happens to have been profitable.

[00:38:01] Right.

[00:38:02] Let’s talk about how he got to where he was.

[00:38:04] So, Collins Rector raises this $88 million

[00:38:07] because he spends months

[00:38:08] criss-crossing the country

[00:38:09] while Brock and Shackley

[00:38:11] are kind of working out of the mansion.

[00:38:13] Collins Rector spends a lot of time

[00:38:14] drumming up investments

[00:38:16] and giving his pitch

[00:38:17] to anyone who will listen.

[00:38:19] He brags about the features

[00:38:20] that Den is going to have.

[00:38:21] Users are going to be able

[00:38:22] to pause shows

[00:38:23] just as they’re watching them.

[00:38:25] Oh my God!

[00:38:26] And this is something he points out.

[00:38:28] You’ll be able to,

[00:38:29] if you see an actor

[00:38:30] wearing a shirt you like,

[00:38:31] you’ll be able to click on the shirt

[00:38:33] on screen

[00:38:33] and it’ll take you to a website

[00:38:35] where you can buy it, right?

[00:38:37] And that’s, again, that’s a,

[00:38:39] oh yeah, you definitely saw pieces

[00:38:40] of our horrible future, you know?

[00:38:42] Yeah.

[00:38:42] Like, this is, this is,

[00:38:44] these are real,

[00:38:45] both of these

[00:38:46] are real features

[00:38:47] that are eventually materialized

[00:38:48] in various ways, right?

[00:38:50] But also,

[00:38:51] so did a lot of people.

[00:38:52] So did a lot of people.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:54] Yes.

[00:38:55] And more to the point,

[00:38:56] these features may as well

[00:38:57] have been Star Trek bullshit

[00:38:59] in 1998.

[00:39:00] Right, right, right.

[00:39:00] Because about 2% of the country

[00:39:02] had high-speed internet, you know?

[00:39:03] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:03] You’re not clicking

[00:39:04] a fucking T-shirt.

[00:39:06] You’re not streaming video,

[00:39:07] most people.

[00:39:08] Yeah.

[00:39:08] You can say a lot of shit.

[00:39:10] This was a time

[00:39:10] when it was easy

[00:39:11] to say a lot of shit.

[00:39:12] But like, oh,

[00:39:13] can’t build it yet.

[00:39:14] I had dial-up

[00:39:15] in 1998.

[00:39:16] And I will tell you,

[00:39:17] streaming a video

[00:39:18] meant pulling up a video,

[00:39:20] pausing it,

[00:39:20] letting it fucking buffer

[00:39:22] for like 45 minutes,

[00:39:23] and then watching

[00:39:24] your four-minute video, right?

[00:39:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:39:28] So the company continued

[00:39:29] to generate buzz

[00:39:30] and investments

[00:39:31] through 1999.

[00:39:32] But one thing was off.

[00:39:34] No one seemed to know

[00:39:35] where Mark Collins Rector

[00:39:37] had come from

[00:39:38] or who he really was.

[00:39:40] The LA Times

[00:39:41] tried to reach out

[00:39:42] to dozens of his past

[00:39:43] business associates

[00:39:44] and even friends,

[00:39:45] all of whom I think

[00:39:46] either denied knowing him

[00:39:47] or offered conflicting stories

[00:39:49] about his life.

[00:39:50] Quote,

[00:39:51] Collins Rector often claimed

[00:39:52] to be in his late 20s.

[00:39:53] And associates and employees

[00:39:54] say he gave the impression

[00:39:56] that he had been

[00:39:56] a computer student at UCLA.

[00:39:58] But company filings

[00:39:59] show that he is 40

[00:40:00] and officials at UCLA

[00:40:01] say there is no record

[00:40:02] he was ever a student there.

[00:40:04] According to records

[00:40:04] in Los Angeles Superior Court,

[00:40:06] he changed his name

[00:40:07] in 1998

[00:40:08] from Mark Rector

[00:40:09] to Mark Collins Rector.

[00:40:11] I don’t like this man

[00:40:13] very much.

[00:40:13] He’s not a good guy.

[00:40:16] Not a good guy.

[00:40:18] Seems not great.

[00:40:20] He’s straddling the line

[00:40:21] between serial entrepreneur

[00:40:23] and con man.

[00:40:24] And as I say often,

[00:40:26] any founder,

[00:40:27] anyone who wants to start

[00:40:29] a tech company,

[00:40:31] especially in this period,

[00:40:32] has some con man to him.

[00:40:33] Jobs, Steve Jobs

[00:40:34] is part con man, right?

[00:40:36] Because part of what you’re doing

[00:40:37] is promising and guaranteeing people

[00:40:39] they will get something

[00:40:39] that you don’t know

[00:40:41] you can actually make yet.

[00:40:42] Yeah.

[00:40:42] Right?

[00:40:42] Yeah.

[00:40:43] That is a key,

[00:40:43] key part of the business

[00:40:44] and that’s a bit of a con.

[00:40:46] Now,

[00:40:47] Jobs wound up

[00:40:48] finding people

[00:40:49] who were able to make

[00:40:49] the things that he promised happen.

[00:40:51] Generally,

[00:40:51] not always.

[00:40:53] Well,

[00:40:53] it’s the successes

[00:40:54] are the ones that in hindsight

[00:40:55] found the right person.

[00:40:57] Like Elon Musk.

[00:40:58] Right, right.

[00:40:58] Like,

[00:40:59] we just have the benefit

[00:41:01] of Elon Musk

[00:41:01] likes being on Twitter

[00:41:02] to know he’s a moron.

[00:41:04] If he wasn’t on Twitter,

[00:41:05] we simply wouldn’t know this shit.

[00:41:07] If the company

[00:41:08] was just making products

[00:41:09] and he was never making promises

[00:41:11] or any of these,

[00:41:12] like not,

[00:41:13] like he,

[00:41:13] he would still have

[00:41:14] a lot of his aura to him.

[00:41:15] Yeah.

[00:41:16] If he just kept fucking quiet.

[00:41:17] Yeah.

[00:41:18] Anyway.

[00:41:19] So,

[00:41:20] Collins Rector,

[00:41:22] yeah,

[00:41:22] straddles the line

[00:41:23] between entrepreneur and con man.

[00:41:24] 20 years back,

[00:41:25] he had run,

[00:41:26] this is because

[00:41:26] the LA Times looks into him

[00:41:27] and they found that

[00:41:28] his first business venture

[00:41:29] was this telecom company

[00:41:30] in Florida

[00:41:31] called Telequest

[00:41:32] that he ran like,

[00:41:33] he started like 20 years ago.

[00:41:34] One of his investors

[00:41:35] described him as a genius

[00:41:37] who was too much

[00:41:38] into instant aggrandizement.

[00:41:40] Right?

[00:41:40] Basically,

[00:41:41] he,

[00:41:42] he,

[00:41:42] he was great

[00:41:43] at certain things.

[00:41:44] He was really smart.

[00:41:45] He was a visionary,

[00:41:45] but he also wanted to spend

[00:41:47] all the money on fun shit

[00:41:48] like sports cars

[00:41:49] as opposed to building a business.

[00:41:51] That business eventually failed

[00:41:53] and he started another one

[00:41:54] called World Com Net,

[00:41:56] which sold travel packages

[00:41:57] and reached a peak valuation

[00:41:58] of about $100 million

[00:41:59] before crashing.

[00:42:01] So,

[00:42:02] shortly after moving in together,

[00:42:03] because when,

[00:42:04] he picks up this kid,

[00:42:05] Shackley,

[00:42:06] from a message board

[00:42:07] when Shackley’s like 16

[00:42:09] and they move in,

[00:42:10] or younger,

[00:42:11] and they move in together

[00:42:12] when Shackley’s 16

[00:42:13] and they move in together

[00:42:13] and they start a business

[00:42:14] which they sell

[00:42:15] for millions of dollars

[00:42:16] and they use that

[00:42:17] to buy the mansion

[00:42:18] that Din has operated out of.

[00:42:19] He found this kid,

[00:42:21] did he like,

[00:42:22] on a chat board

[00:42:23] and then like,

[00:42:24] got the kid’s parents’ permission

[00:42:26] and transported him

[00:42:27] over state lines?

[00:42:28] I think it’s within

[00:42:29] the state of California,

[00:42:31] but yeah,

[00:42:31] his parents let him move in

[00:42:33] with this guy

[00:42:34] because they think

[00:42:34] they’re starting a business,

[00:42:35] I mean,

[00:42:35] they do start a business

[00:42:36] and they sell it

[00:42:37] and they make a lot of money.

[00:42:38] I do kind of see

[00:42:38] where this is.

[00:42:38] This is just also

[00:42:39] an abusive sexual situation.

[00:42:40] Yeah,

[00:42:41] I do see where this is going.

[00:42:43] Right.

[00:42:44] We don’t know exactly

[00:42:45] what went on,

[00:42:46] but that’s heavily insinuated,

[00:42:47] right?

[00:42:48] Sure.

[00:42:49] Ew.

[00:42:50] So,

[00:42:50] they pay high salaries,

[00:42:53] Din does,

[00:42:53] and cash bonuses

[00:42:54] for their employees

[00:42:55] rather than giving them stock,

[00:42:57] which is really weird.

[00:42:58] Most startups

[00:42:58] are primarily

[00:42:59] compensating people

[00:43:01] in stock

[00:43:02] and the idea is

[00:43:03] if the company works out,

[00:43:04] then you get rich,

[00:43:05] right?

[00:43:05] It’s sort of a sign

[00:43:07] that maybe they knew

[00:43:08] this wasn’t going to work

[00:43:09] and they were operating a con,

[00:43:11] that they’re paying themselves

[00:43:12] and their friends

[00:43:13] huge money.

[00:43:13] They’re paying huge salaries

[00:43:14] rather than giving

[00:43:15] a bunch of stock options up,

[00:43:16] right?

[00:43:16] That’s kind of a sign

[00:43:17] they know this isn’t going

[00:43:18] to work out.

[00:43:19] In the first six months

[00:43:20] of 1999,

[00:43:21] Din made zero revenue

[00:43:22] and lost $20 million.

[00:43:25] Most of that money

[00:43:26] goes to salaries,

[00:43:27] but some of it

[00:43:28] is spent on giant parties

[00:43:29] that brought in

[00:43:30] an A-list guest roster.

[00:43:31] I want you to guess,

[00:43:32] just guess

[00:43:33] one of the guests,

[00:43:34] one of the celebrity guests

[00:43:35] that show up at these parties

[00:43:36] the Din boys are throwing.

[00:43:39] What year?

[00:43:40] What year are we talking?

[00:43:41] This is like

[00:43:42] 99,

[00:43:42] 2000,

[00:43:44] 98,

[00:43:44] 99,

[00:43:45] 2000,

[00:43:45] like that period.

[00:43:46] Oh, God.

[00:43:47] Seinfeld.

[00:43:48] I mean,

[00:43:48] all of the…

[00:43:50] Oh, right.

[00:43:52] Seinfeld.

[00:43:52] Seinfeld,

[00:43:53] the friends,

[00:43:54] every friend.

[00:43:56] The friends?

[00:43:56] No,

[00:43:57] it’s Bryan Singer.

[00:43:58] It’s Bryan Singer

[00:43:59] at his party.

[00:44:00] Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:00] Bryan Singer

[00:44:01] and Gary Goddard,

[00:44:02] two of the allegedly

[00:44:03] sex-pestiest sex pests

[00:44:05] in the history

[00:44:06] of sex-pestitude,

[00:44:07] right?

[00:44:07] Yeah.

[00:44:08] You read some

[00:44:09] of the allegations

[00:44:10] against Singer.

[00:44:11] He’s not been convicted

[00:44:12] of anything,

[00:44:12] in a court of law,

[00:44:13] I have to say,

[00:44:14] per Hollywood Reporter.

[00:44:16] And obviously,

[00:44:17] the fact that they’re

[00:44:17] having these parties,

[00:44:19] the fact that

[00:44:20] fucking Collins Rector

[00:44:21] is the guy he is,

[00:44:22] there’s a lot of bad things

[00:44:23] happening at these parties.

[00:44:25] Kind of,

[00:44:26] not unique,

[00:44:27] but I will say

[00:44:28] they’re bad things

[00:44:28] happening to young men.

[00:44:30] Although,

[00:44:31] I say young men,

[00:44:31] they’re bad things

[00:44:32] happening to young boys,

[00:44:33] which is different

[00:44:34] from some of the other guys

[00:44:35] in Hollywood.

[00:44:36] To quote from

[00:44:37] the Hollywood Reporter,

[00:44:38] a young man sued,

[00:44:39] claiming Collins Rector

[00:44:40] had started molesting him

[00:44:41] when he was 13.

[00:44:42] More litigation followed

[00:44:43] regarding alleged goings-on

[00:44:45] at the Din Mansion.

[00:44:46] One alleged victim,

[00:44:47] Alexander Burton,

[00:44:48] claimed that Collins Rector,

[00:44:49] Pierce,

[00:44:50] and Shackley

[00:44:50] had supplied him

[00:44:51] with alcohol and drugs

[00:44:52] even though he was under 21

[00:44:53] and that all three men

[00:44:54] subsequently assaulted him.

[00:44:55] Another accuser

[00:44:56] was said to have written

[00:44:57] a suicide note

[00:44:58] reading in part,

[00:44:59] I can’t go on.

[00:45:00] I let them use me

[00:45:00] as a sex tool.

[00:45:02] The note was discovered

[00:45:02] before a suicide attempt

[00:45:04] could be made.

[00:45:04] There were also accusations

[00:45:06] that Collins Rector

[00:45:06] would intimidate his victims

[00:45:07] by brandishing a gun.

[00:45:10] So.

[00:45:11] Jesus.

[00:45:12] Yes.

[00:45:12] That’s sad.

[00:45:13] Ew.

[00:45:13] And I, again,

[00:45:14] to make it very clear,

[00:45:15] first off,

[00:45:16] for legal reasons,

[00:45:17] Brock Pierce has not been

[00:45:18] convicted of anything.

[00:45:19] He has not been proven

[00:45:20] in a court of law

[00:45:21] to have abused anyone

[00:45:22] at these parties.

[00:45:23] He has just been accused of it.

[00:45:25] There was at least one case

[00:45:26] where things were settled

[00:45:27] out of court.

[00:45:28] Um,

[00:45:29] but Collins Rector

[00:45:30] has been convicted of things

[00:45:31] and Brock Pierce has not.

[00:45:33] I do want to make that clear.

[00:45:34] But it’s also clear

[00:45:36] there are allegations

[00:45:36] against Brock Pierce

[00:45:37] during this time

[00:45:38] that he sexually assaulted

[00:45:39] at least one child

[00:45:40] that I’m aware of.

[00:45:41] Right?

[00:45:42] Um,

[00:45:42] or at least one alleged victim.

[00:45:44] Sorry.

[00:45:44] Yeah,

[00:45:44] who was under 21.

[00:45:46] Um,

[00:45:47] so,

[00:45:48] you know,

[00:45:49] interpret that how you will.

[00:45:50] I know how I feel

[00:45:51] about Brock Pierce.

[00:45:53] Uh,

[00:45:54] but again,

[00:45:54] hasn’t been convicted of anything.

[00:45:55] So,

[00:45:56] uh,

[00:45:56] the resultant lawsuit

[00:45:57] forced Mark Collins Rector

[00:45:58] to leave the country

[00:46:00] before Din could IPO.

[00:46:02] And the company

[00:46:02] collapsed quickly after that.

[00:46:04] About a third of the employees

[00:46:05] were laid off

[00:46:06] and new management

[00:46:07] struggled to right

[00:46:08] a sinking ship.

[00:46:09] Collins Rector,

[00:46:10] under indictment

[00:46:11] for transporting

[00:46:11] minors across

[00:46:12] state lines for sex,

[00:46:13] took Shackley and Pierce

[00:46:14] to Spain with him

[00:46:15] in August of 2000.

[00:46:17] So,

[00:46:17] the boys have now

[00:46:18] fled the country for Spain

[00:46:19] where they’re living

[00:46:20] in a nice villa,

[00:46:21] one has to assume.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:23] And probably continuing

[00:46:24] to get up to

[00:46:25] things we don’t

[00:46:26] want to think about.

[00:46:27] Yeah.

[00:46:28] One would assume.

[00:46:30] Now,

[00:46:30] in May of 2022,

[00:46:32] their home,

[00:46:33] one may assume

[00:46:33] because in May of 2022,

[00:46:35] their home was raided

[00:46:36] by Interpol.

[00:46:37] Like,

[00:46:38] not,

[00:46:38] not a great sign

[00:46:40] when your house

[00:46:40] gets raided

[00:46:41] by Interpol.

[00:46:42] While,

[00:46:42] while you’re on the run

[00:46:43] from the American feds.

[00:46:45] Right,

[00:46:46] for transporting

[00:46:47] minors across state lines.

[00:46:48] And the search

[00:46:49] of their home in Spain

[00:46:50] found weapons

[00:46:51] and thousands

[00:46:52] of individual pieces

[00:46:53] of child sex abuse material.

[00:46:55] Right?

[00:46:56] Thousands

[00:46:57] of photos

[00:46:58] of, like,

[00:46:58] naked kids being abused.

[00:47:00] Pierce has claimed

[00:47:01] he was unaware

[00:47:02] that the photos

[00:47:03] were in the house.

[00:47:05] There’s thousands

[00:47:05] of pieces of porn

[00:47:06] I didn’t know about,

[00:47:07] you know?

[00:47:08] He and Shackley

[00:47:09] were released,

[00:47:10] but their older friend

[00:47:11] was,

[00:47:11] ultimately extradited

[00:47:12] to the United States

[00:47:13] for his many crimes

[00:47:14] and pled guilty

[00:47:15] to five counts

[00:47:15] of trafficking minors.

[00:47:16] And again,

[00:47:17] maybe Pierce didn’t know

[00:47:19] about the photos.

[00:47:19] Legally,

[00:47:20] I have to say that,

[00:47:21] right?

[00:47:21] Because he and Shackley

[00:47:23] were released,

[00:47:24] whereas,

[00:47:25] uh,

[00:47:25] uh,

[00:47:26] fucking Collins Rector

[00:47:27] was,

[00:47:27] was extradited,

[00:47:28] right?

[00:47:29] Is that motherfucker

[00:47:29] in jail for a long time?

[00:47:32] No,

[00:47:32] a few months.

[00:47:33] He does a few months

[00:47:34] in prison.

[00:47:34] Uh,

[00:47:35] and then he flees the country

[00:47:36] because he’s still rich

[00:47:37] and he seems to still

[00:47:38] reside in Europe today.

[00:47:39] Last I heard,

[00:47:40] he was there

[00:47:41] in like 2014.

[00:47:42] I don’t know

[00:47:42] what he’s up to right now

[00:47:43] or if he’s still alive,

[00:47:44] but,

[00:47:45] yeah.

[00:47:46] Hmm?

[00:47:47] I hate it here.

[00:47:49] Yeah,

[00:47:49] it’s great.

[00:47:50] It’s,

[00:47:50] it’s not great.

[00:47:50] Earth, you mean.

[00:47:51] It’s not good.

[00:47:51] Yeah.

[00:47:52] Planet Earth

[00:47:52] in this time.

[00:47:53] Yes.

[00:47:54] So,

[00:47:55] that’s what I mean.

[00:47:57] After this all

[00:47:58] kind of blows over,

[00:47:59] Pierce returns to the U.S.

[00:48:00] He settles the claims

[00:48:02] against him.

[00:48:02] He has never been,

[00:48:03] he has never acknowledged

[00:48:04] or been convicted

[00:48:05] of any wrongdoing

[00:48:06] during this period of time.

[00:48:08] But,

[00:48:08] while he was in Spain,

[00:48:09] before he goes back

[00:48:10] to the U.S.,

[00:48:11] he creates his next company,

[00:48:13] Internet Gaming Entertainment,

[00:48:15] or IGE.

[00:48:17] You ever heard

[00:48:17] of this company,

[00:48:18] Andrew?

[00:48:20] I,

[00:48:20] I thought you were

[00:48:21] going to say IGN,

[00:48:22] I guess.

[00:48:22] No,

[00:48:22] so did I for a second

[00:48:23] when I first started reading this.

[00:48:24] No,

[00:48:25] he didn’t make IGN,

[00:48:25] right?

[00:48:26] No,

[00:48:26] he didn’t.

[00:48:27] Um,

[00:48:29] did you ever play

[00:48:29] World of Warcraft,

[00:48:30] like,

[00:48:30] after it came out?

[00:48:31] Like,

[00:48:32] right after it came out?

[00:48:33] Uh,

[00:48:34] not as much,

[00:48:35] but,

[00:48:35] like,

[00:48:35] I’ve been in,

[00:48:36] I’ve been in the room

[00:48:37] when people are playing it,

[00:48:38] yeah.

[00:48:38] Yeah.

[00:48:38] I was big into

[00:48:39] World of Warcraft

[00:48:40] right at,

[00:48:40] for like,

[00:48:40] the first,

[00:48:41] two years after it came out,

[00:48:42] like,

[00:48:42] release,

[00:48:43] the first expansion pack,

[00:48:44] basically.

[00:48:45] And,

[00:48:45] if you were playing WoW

[00:48:47] during that period,

[00:48:48] there’s a good chance

[00:48:49] you know what IGE is,

[00:48:50] because this is the company

[00:48:51] that made gold farming

[00:48:52] into a thing,

[00:48:53] right?

[00:48:54] Oh,

[00:48:55] sure.

[00:48:55] this is,

[00:48:55] they’re not the,

[00:48:56] there were others,

[00:48:57] obviously,

[00:48:58] but IGE was the big

[00:48:59] gold farming company,

[00:49:00] and they were the company

[00:49:01] that kind of established

[00:49:03] gold farming as an industry

[00:49:05] for the chunk of time

[00:49:06] that it was,

[00:49:07] right?

[00:49:07] Oh,

[00:49:07] God.

[00:49:08] Now,

[00:49:08] the goal with IGE,

[00:49:10] though,

[00:49:10] this is what’s important.

[00:49:12] The company’s goal

[00:49:12] was not to do

[00:49:14] what it became,

[00:49:15] which was,

[00:49:15] it was basically

[00:49:16] farming gold

[00:49:17] in video games

[00:49:18] like EverQuest

[00:49:18] and World of Warcraft

[00:49:19] against the expressed desires

[00:49:22] and the stated rules

[00:49:23] of the developers

[00:49:24] that made those games,

[00:49:25] right?

[00:49:26] IGE’s actual goal

[00:49:28] was to enable

[00:49:29] and to convince

[00:49:30] the gaming industry

[00:49:31] to enable

[00:49:32] trading of real money

[00:49:34] for virtual goods,

[00:49:35] which is the thing

[00:49:36] that all,

[00:49:37] basically,

[00:49:37] all big games do now,

[00:49:38] right?

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:39] This,

[00:49:39] the idea,

[00:49:40] I,

[00:49:40] IGE wanted to push that.

[00:49:42] That was controversial

[00:49:43] at this point in time.

[00:49:45] Collins Rector

[00:49:45] would later claim

[00:49:46] that he was the shadow founder

[00:49:48] of the company,

[00:49:48] that he had the idea

[00:49:49] and Brock took the credit.

[00:49:51] Pierce denies this.

[00:49:52] I don’t know the truth,

[00:49:54] but as the Hollywood Reporter

[00:49:55] makes clear,

[00:49:55] quote,

[00:49:56] what’s unclear

[00:49:57] is when Collins Rector

[00:49:58] stopped being a part

[00:49:59] of Pierce’s life.

[00:50:00] In a lawsuit against Pierce,

[00:50:01] a former partner in IGE

[00:50:03] claimed that Pierce

[00:50:03] had told him in 2005

[00:50:04] that Collins Rector,

[00:50:05] then living overseas

[00:50:06] and, according to the Fed,

[00:50:08] still consorting

[00:50:08] with teenage boys,

[00:50:09] had been blackmailing him,

[00:50:11] threatening to damage IGE

[00:50:12] in the eyes of investors.

[00:50:14] Pierce’s rep says

[00:50:15] Collins Rector

[00:50:16] never threatened blackmail

[00:50:17] and denies that Pierce

[00:50:18] ever made such a statement.

[00:50:20] Pierce separated

[00:50:20] in any business relationship

[00:50:21] with Din Failed

[00:50:22] and the internet bubble

[00:50:23] burst in 2000.

[00:50:25] Pierce’s personal relationship

[00:50:26] with Collins Rector

[00:50:27] lasted until 2003,

[00:50:28] the rep says.

[00:50:29] That’s after Collins Rector’s

[00:50:30] indictment in 2000

[00:50:31] and after Interpol

[00:50:32] showed up at the house

[00:50:33] in Spain in 2002.

[00:50:34] But Pierce’s rep says

[00:50:35] at the time of his arrest,

[00:50:37] Collins Rector

[00:50:37] asserted his innocence.

[00:50:39] It wasn’t until Pierce

[00:50:40] received additional information

[00:50:41] concerning Collins Rector’s

[00:50:43] improper actions

[00:50:44] that he separated entirely.

[00:50:46] So, you know,

[00:50:48] I don’t…

[00:50:49] I mean…

[00:50:49] He’s still like a kid

[00:50:51] at this point, right?

[00:50:51] I think he basically knew.

[00:50:53] He is very young at this point,

[00:50:54] but he has also been involved

[00:50:56] in a lot of bad behavior.

[00:50:57] He is an adult now,

[00:50:59] and he…

[00:50:59] Right, you know,

[00:51:00] I don’t have a lot

[00:51:01] of sympathy for him.

[00:51:03] Now, I will say,

[00:51:05] eventually,

[00:51:05] Collins Rector

[00:51:06] exits Pierce’s life,

[00:51:07] and whatever impact

[00:51:08] he had on IGE,

[00:51:09] this is Pierce’s baby

[00:51:12] for the majority of the time

[00:51:13] that the company exists, right?

[00:51:15] And once Collins Rector

[00:51:17] is kind of out of the picture,

[00:51:18] you see there’s maybe

[00:51:19] this need in Pierce

[00:51:21] to have an older man

[00:51:22] to give him advice

[00:51:23] and professional assistance.

[00:51:25] I mean, that’s a good idea

[00:51:26] professionally

[00:51:26] in cases like this.

[00:51:29] But also,

[00:51:30] it seems to be something

[00:51:31] Pierce maybe seeks out

[00:51:32] kind of pathologically.

[00:51:34] And in this case,

[00:51:35] the next older man

[00:51:36] that he seeks out

[00:51:37] as a mentor

[00:51:38] is Pierce.

[00:51:39] Is Steve Bannon.

[00:51:40] Now,

[00:51:42] it makes sense.

[00:51:43] Part of the pod.

[00:51:44] What the fuck?

[00:51:45] It’s not great.

[00:51:47] It’s fucked up, obviously.

[00:51:49] We know who Bannon is

[00:51:50] and who he becomes.

[00:51:51] It makes sense, right?

[00:51:53] At the time, right.

[00:51:54] Steve is a fabulously

[00:51:55] wealthy producer, right?

[00:51:57] He gets his start

[00:51:58] as like a banker, basically.

[00:51:59] But he helps

[00:52:01] like make fucking Seinfeld, right?

[00:52:03] Yeah.

[00:52:04] And Brock had wanted

[00:52:05] to be a producer himself.

[00:52:07] He came from Hollywood.

[00:52:09] So Bannon is the sort

[00:52:10] of authority figure

[00:52:11] Pierce had grown up

[00:52:12] listening to

[00:52:13] and respecting, right?

[00:52:14] Like he clearly

[00:52:15] has a lot of respect

[00:52:16] for the job.

[00:52:17] So it makes sense

[00:52:18] that Bannon would be a guy

[00:52:19] that he’d kind of

[00:52:20] inherently trust.

[00:52:22] Yeah.

[00:52:22] So by the time Bannon

[00:52:23] came to IGE,

[00:52:24] World of Warcraft

[00:52:25] was the biggest game

[00:52:26] in history.

[00:52:26] And there were millions

[00:52:28] being made

[00:52:28] selling easy access to gold

[00:52:30] and other in-game resources

[00:52:31] that normally you had to grind

[00:52:33] for dozens of hours to get.

[00:52:35] IGE had set up

[00:52:36] gold farms in China

[00:52:38] using cheap workbooks

[00:52:39] so you could spend long hours

[00:52:40] doing that in-game grinding

[00:52:41] for the player.

[00:52:43] Now, this wasn’t illegal, right?

[00:52:45] This is not a crime

[00:52:46] to operate a business like this,

[00:52:47] but it is a gray market.

[00:52:49] This may seem kind of hard to believe

[00:52:50] given the present realities

[00:52:52] of the video game industry,

[00:52:53] but game developers

[00:52:54] initially had a big issue

[00:52:56] with the idea of gamers

[00:52:57] using real money

[00:52:58] to buy in-game assets.

[00:53:00] For one thing,

[00:53:01] if you actually care about

[00:53:02] making a good game,

[00:53:03] if that’s your interest,

[00:53:04] is actually making a game

[00:53:06] that’s like a quality game

[00:53:08] and it’s consistent,

[00:53:09] letting people buy their way

[00:53:11] to have better stuff

[00:53:13] wrecks the game, right?

[00:53:15] Like, it kind of fucks up

[00:53:17] the whole thing, you know?

[00:53:18] Well, it’s like the two goals.

[00:53:20] It’s like, is your actual goal

[00:53:21] as a game studio

[00:53:22] to make a good game

[00:53:23] or is it to make money?

[00:53:25] Right.

[00:53:25] And those are not

[00:53:26] necessarily consonant.

[00:53:28] And the studios land on make money,

[00:53:30] but the game developers themselves

[00:53:32] often were very hesitant

[00:53:33] to embrace this kind of thing

[00:53:34] initially, right?

[00:53:36] And so there’s also, like,

[00:53:38] World of Warcraft,

[00:53:39] has an in-game economy

[00:53:40] that Blizzard spent

[00:53:41] quite a bit of time

[00:53:42] trying to set up

[00:53:44] and make, like, functional, right?

[00:53:46] Yeah.

[00:53:47] So they’re also upset

[00:53:48] that this is fucking up

[00:53:49] the in-game economy.

[00:53:50] So they sought to ban Gold Farmers

[00:53:51] whenever they cropped up.

[00:53:53] In 2005, Pierce met Bannon

[00:53:55] and brought him into IGE

[00:53:57] to act as the adult in the room.

[00:53:59] The company needed

[00:54:00] major investment money

[00:54:01] if it was going to survive

[00:54:02] and thrive.

[00:54:04] And Bannon, basically, Bannon,

[00:54:06] Pierce sees Bannon

[00:54:07] as the trusted old head

[00:54:08] who, you know,

[00:54:09] who investors would,

[00:54:10] because Pierce has a reputation, right?

[00:54:13] He’s somebody who people

[00:54:15] have a degree of faith in,

[00:54:17] but they also see he’s really young.

[00:54:18] So if they’re going to invest

[00:54:19] serious money in a company

[00:54:20] he’s starting,

[00:54:21] they want to see there’s a guy

[00:54:22] like Steve Bannon, you know?

[00:54:25] So that’s why Bannon’s there.

[00:54:27] Bannon visits the company’s

[00:54:28] Hong Kong offices

[00:54:29] and he works out a deal

[00:54:30] whereby Goldman Sachs,

[00:54:31] his old employer,

[00:54:32] invested $60 million

[00:54:33] and he became the VP of IGE.

[00:54:37] Now, it’s important to note,

[00:54:38] IGE is pretty evil

[00:54:39] before Bannon comes on board.

[00:54:42] Not only is it kind of ruining

[00:54:43] the spirit of the games

[00:54:45] that its farmers operate in,

[00:54:46] but the whole business hinges

[00:54:48] on a lot of questionable activity,

[00:54:50] as the Washington Post summarizes.

[00:54:53] It’s like a digital sweatshop, right?

[00:54:55] Yeah, it is a digital sweatshop, right?

[00:54:57] Yeah.

[00:54:57] IGE employees in the Hong Kong office

[00:54:59] created accounts

[00:55:00] for the company’s delivery avatars

[00:55:02] using the names and home addresses

[00:55:03] of unwitting U.S. residents

[00:55:05] picked at random in a phone directory.

[00:55:07] The company,

[00:55:08] the U.S. dial-up phone service

[00:55:09] that connected to servers

[00:55:10] in the United States,

[00:55:11] making it appear

[00:55:11] that they were using computers there

[00:55:13] rather than in Hong Kong.

[00:55:15] We were spending $20,000 a month

[00:55:17] on dial-up service,

[00:55:18] one employee said.

[00:55:21] So, that’s shady as fuck.

[00:55:24] We have a 0.5 version of this business.

[00:55:26] I know, I know.

[00:55:26] It’s so insane.

[00:55:28] Oh my God.

[00:55:28] Yeah.

[00:55:30] Speaking of stealing people’s identities

[00:55:33] for profit,

[00:55:34] you know who loves to do that?

[00:55:36] Besides me.

[00:55:38] That’s right.

[00:55:38] It’s our sponsors.

[00:55:40] Killing me.

[00:55:43] Hi, this is Jo Winterstein,

[00:55:45] host of the Spirit Daughter podcast,

[00:55:47] where we talk about astrology,

[00:55:50] natal charts,

[00:55:51] and how to step into

[00:55:51] your most vibrant life.

[00:55:53] And I just sat down

[00:55:54] with a mini driver.

[00:55:55] The Irish traveler said

[00:55:56] when I was 16,

[00:55:57] you’re going to have

[00:55:58] a terrible time with men.

[00:56:00] Actor, storyteller,

[00:56:02] and unapologetic

[00:56:04] Aquarian visionary.

[00:56:06] Aquarius is all about

[00:56:07] freedom loving,

[00:56:08] and different perspectives.

[00:56:10] And I find a lot of people

[00:56:11] with strong placements in Aquarius

[00:56:13] like are misunderstood.

[00:56:14] A sun and Venus in Aquarius

[00:56:16] in her seventh house

[00:56:17] spark her unconventional approach

[00:56:19] to partnership.

[00:56:20] He really has taught me

[00:56:21] to embrace people sleeping

[00:56:23] in different rooms,

[00:56:24] on different houses,

[00:56:25] in different places,

[00:56:26] but just an embracing

[00:56:27] of the is-ness of it all.

[00:56:29] If you’re navigating

[00:56:29] your own transformation

[00:56:31] or just want a chart side view

[00:56:32] into how a leading artist

[00:56:34] integrates astrology,

[00:56:36] creativity,

[00:56:37] and real life,

[00:56:37] this episode is a must listen.

[00:56:40] Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast

[00:56:42] starting on February 24th

[00:56:44] on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:56:45] Apple Podcasts,

[00:56:47] or wherever you listen

[00:56:48] to your podcasts.

[00:56:49] I’m Clayton Eckerd,

[00:56:50] and in 2022,

[00:56:51] I was the lead of ABC’s

[00:56:53] The Bachelor.

[00:56:55] Unfortunately,

[00:56:56] it didn’t go according to plan.

[00:56:58] He became the first Bachelor

[00:56:59] to ever have his final rose rejected.

[00:57:01] The internet turned on him.

[00:57:03] If I could press a button

[00:57:04] and rewind it all, I would.

[00:57:06] But what happened to Clayton

[00:57:07] after the show

[00:57:08] made even bigger headlines.

[00:57:11] It began as a one-night stand

[00:57:13] and ended in a courtroom

[00:57:14] with Clayton at the center

[00:57:16] of a very strange paternity scandal.

[00:57:18] The media is here.

[00:57:19] This case has gone viral.

[00:57:21] The dating contract.

[00:57:23] Agree to date me,

[00:57:24] but I’m also suing you.

[00:57:25] Please search for it.

[00:57:27] This is unlike anything

[00:57:28] I’ve ever seen before.

[00:57:30] I’m Stephanie Young.

[00:57:32] This is Love Trapped.

[00:57:34] This season,

[00:57:35] an epic battle of

[00:57:36] he said, she said,

[00:57:38] and the search for accountability

[00:57:39] in a sea of lies.

[00:57:41] I have done nothing

[00:57:42] except get pregnant

[00:57:43] by the Bachelor.

[00:57:46] Listen to Love Trapped

[00:57:47] on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:57:48] Apple Podcasts,

[00:57:49] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:57:55] Hey, I’m Jay Shetty,

[00:57:56] host of the On Purpose podcast.

[00:57:58] I’m joined by Luke Combs,

[00:58:00] award-winning country music artist

[00:58:02] and one of the most authentic voices

[00:58:04] in music today.

[00:58:05] Luke opens up

[00:58:06] about success,

[00:58:07] self-doubt,

[00:58:08] mental health,

[00:58:09] and what it really takes

[00:58:10] to stay true

[00:58:11] to who you are

[00:58:12] when your life changes overnight.

[00:58:14] I hate fame.

[00:58:15] I hate the word celebrity.

[00:58:16] I hate those words.

[00:58:17] They make me uncomfortable.

[00:58:18] But I think when you get

[00:58:19] to a certain point,

[00:58:20] the fame or the success

[00:58:21] or the influence,

[00:58:22] it just accentuates

[00:58:24] and exacerbates

[00:58:25] the inherent person

[00:58:27] that you are.

[00:58:28] The guy that says

[00:58:29] he’s always going to be there

[00:58:30] and that will do anything

[00:58:31] to be there

[00:58:31] is the only guy

[00:58:33] that’s not there.

[00:58:34] I’m in Australia

[00:58:35] when Bo was born.

[00:58:36] My whole identity

[00:58:37] is that

[00:58:38] no matter what,

[00:58:39] I’m going to prioritize

[00:58:40] my wife and my children

[00:58:42] over my job.

[00:58:43] I dread the conversation

[00:58:44] with my son.

[00:58:46] What do you think you’d say?

[00:58:48] Listen to On Purpose

[00:58:49] with Jay Shetty

[00:58:50] on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:58:52] Apple Podcasts,

[00:58:53] or wherever you get

[00:58:54] your podcasts.

[00:58:55] Welcome to Dirty Rush,

[00:58:56] the truth about sorority life,

[00:58:58] the good, the bad,

[00:58:59] and the sisterhood,

[00:59:01] with your hosts,

[00:59:02] me, Gia Giudice,

[00:59:03] Daisy Kent,

[00:59:04] and Jennifer Kessler.

[00:59:05] Welcome to Dirty Rush,

[00:59:06] Rush, the recruitment,

[00:59:07] the ritual,

[00:59:08] the reality of Greek life

[00:59:09] has been a mystery

[00:59:10] for those outside

[00:59:11] the sorority circles

[00:59:12] until now.

[00:59:14] Is it really

[00:59:14] a supportive sisterhood

[00:59:15] that’s simply misunderstood?

[00:59:17] Or is there something

[00:59:18] more scandalous

[00:59:18] happening on campuses

[00:59:19] across the country?

[00:59:21] In this podcast,

[00:59:22] we pledge to peel back

[00:59:23] the layers

[00:59:23] and spell out the truth

[00:59:24] one Greek letter at a time.

[00:59:26] Pledges and actives,

[00:59:28] rush chairs and ritual keepers,

[00:59:30] some call it

[00:59:31] the best time of their life,

[00:59:32] while others say

[00:59:33] it’s a nightmare.

[00:59:35] From a perfect rush,

[00:59:35] rush to recruitment scandals,

[00:59:37] what is really going on

[00:59:38] behind the doors

[00:59:39] of those sorority houses

[00:59:40] from Alpha to Omega?

[00:59:42] We’re taking you

[00:59:42] inside Sorority Row,

[00:59:44] including the chapter room,

[00:59:45] as we explore the fellowship

[00:59:46] and the frenemies.

[00:59:48] Let’s get dirty.

[00:59:49] Listen to Dirty Rush

[00:59:50] on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:59:52] Apple Podcasts,

[00:59:53] or wherever you get

[00:59:54] your podcasts.

[00:59:59] And we’re back.

[01:00:03] So,

[01:00:04] uh,

[01:00:05] gold farmers

[01:00:06] working for IGE

[01:00:07] in China

[01:00:08] made as little as

[01:00:09] 25 cents an hour

[01:00:10] laboring in cramped factories

[01:00:12] the New York Times

[01:00:12] described as

[01:00:13] virtual sweatshops.

[01:00:15] Bannon’s job, then,

[01:00:16] was to convince

[01:00:17] old money people

[01:00:18] that this business

[01:00:19] is a gold mine.

[01:00:20] And unfortunately,

[01:00:22] he has some success

[01:00:23] with this initially,

[01:00:24] but he doesn’t

[01:00:25] succeed enough.

[01:00:26] He’s able to get

[01:00:26] a lot of money

[01:00:27] for IGE,

[01:00:28] but the company

[01:00:29] still doesn’t really, like,

[01:00:30] work out in the long run

[01:00:31] because he’s not able

[01:00:31] to convince

[01:00:32] the people who matter most,

[01:00:34] right?

[01:00:34] The executives,

[01:00:35] running game companies

[01:00:36] like Blizzard.

[01:00:37] Because,

[01:00:38] ultimately,

[01:00:39] IGE can only be viable

[01:00:41] as a business

[01:00:41] if Blizzard stops

[01:00:43] banning their farmers

[01:00:44] and deleting

[01:00:45] the accounts and stuff

[01:00:46] that have all of the money

[01:00:47] that they’re trying to

[01:00:47] transfer to people.

[01:00:49] Um,

[01:00:49] and Blizzard refuses

[01:00:50] to do that.

[01:00:51] They just do not

[01:00:52] initially accept,

[01:00:54] like,

[01:00:54] obviously,

[01:00:54] Activision Blizzard

[01:00:55] eventually becomes

[01:00:56] perfectly fine

[01:00:57] with in-game purchases

[01:00:59] and all this shit, right?

[01:01:00] They have no issue

[01:01:01] with these micro…

[01:01:02] I mean,

[01:01:03] on any,

[01:01:03] like,

[01:01:04] even the philosophical

[01:01:05] people that agree with them,

[01:01:06] it’s not that IGE,

[01:01:08] it’s not the,

[01:01:09] what IGE’s doing

[01:01:10] that they don’t like,

[01:01:10] it’s that IGE’s not in-house.

[01:01:13] Right, right, right.

[01:01:14] I mean,

[01:01:14] I think there is

[01:01:15] from people who care

[01:01:16] about the quality of the game.

[01:01:18] There’s people who just

[01:01:19] have an issue

[01:01:19] with what they’re doing.

[01:01:20] But, right, yeah,

[01:01:20] you are correct

[01:01:21] when it comes to the,

[01:01:22] yeah.

[01:01:23] There’s certainly

[01:01:23] plenty of people,

[01:01:24] even at the time at Blizzard,

[01:01:25] that were like,

[01:01:26] oh my god, yeah,

[01:01:27] in-game transactions,

[01:01:28] amazing.

[01:01:29] And that’s why it’s dumb

[01:01:30] that…

[01:01:30] Just not from these guys.

[01:01:31] Yeah, IGE was ever hoping

[01:01:33] the company would,

[01:01:34] like, that Blizzard

[01:01:35] or whoever

[01:01:36] would accept

[01:01:37] there being a middleman

[01:01:39] who makes money

[01:01:40] off of, like,

[01:01:41] their in-game world.

[01:01:42] Like, that’s nuts.

[01:01:43] Like, why would they?

[01:01:43] Yeah.

[01:01:43] Yeah, why would they

[01:01:44] be okay with this?

[01:01:47] So Blizzard

[01:01:47] constantly raids IGE,

[01:01:50] right?

[01:01:50] They find people’s accounts,

[01:01:52] they delete them,

[01:01:53] they ban people

[01:01:54] who are buying gold.

[01:01:55] There’s a bunch of lawsuits

[01:01:57] from people who bought gold

[01:01:58] and didn’t get it,

[01:01:59] yada, yada, yada.

[01:02:00] It causes a bunch of problems

[01:02:01] for IGE.

[01:02:02] Pierce eventually

[01:02:03] has to step down.

[01:02:04] As CEO.

[01:02:05] And Bannon replaces him.

[01:02:06] And it’s kind of framed

[01:02:07] as, like, Bannon

[01:02:08] edges Pierce out.

[01:02:10] But that doesn’t…

[01:02:11] It seems to have been

[01:02:12] perfectly friendly.

[01:02:13] Like, Pierce seems to have

[01:02:14] been fine with this

[01:02:15] and understood that, like,

[01:02:15] this is what’s, you know,

[01:02:17] we need to do

[01:02:18] for the next stage

[01:02:19] of the business, right?

[01:02:19] Yeah.

[01:02:20] Ultimately, IGE

[01:02:21] stops selling gold entirely.

[01:02:24] And under Bannon,

[01:02:25] the company is renamed

[01:02:26] Affinity Media Holdings

[01:02:28] and instead makes its money

[01:02:30] running and operating

[01:02:31] a series of chat rooms

[01:02:32] and forums for gamers.

[01:02:34] So, the company pivots

[01:02:37] to running places

[01:02:38] where gamers communicate

[01:02:40] and socialize.

[01:02:41] And Bannon,

[01:02:42] first he sees,

[01:02:43] he sees how angry

[01:02:45] these gamers had gotten

[01:02:46] at gold farming.

[01:02:48] And he starts paying attention

[01:02:49] to the social dynamics

[01:02:50] in these online communities.

[01:02:52] And it gives him

[01:02:52] a horrible, awful idea.

[01:02:55] And I’m going to quote

[01:02:55] from the Washington Post here.

[01:02:57] Bannon became fascinated

[01:02:59] with the collective power

[01:03:00] of gamers

[01:03:00] who gathered on these sites,

[01:03:02] according to journalist

[01:03:02] Joshua Green,

[01:03:03] who wrote a book

[01:03:04] Devil’s Bargain

[01:03:05] about Bannon’s rise

[01:03:06] in the Trump administration.

[01:03:07] Selling virtual currency

[01:03:08] was highly unpopular

[01:03:09] with many gamers.

[01:03:10] And they railed against IGE

[01:03:12] in these chat rooms,

[01:03:13] putting pressure

[01:03:13] on the companies

[01:03:14] that operated the games

[01:03:15] not to partner with IGE.

[01:03:17] These guys,

[01:03:18] these rootless white males

[01:03:19] had monster power,

[01:03:21] Bannon said.

[01:03:22] Right?

[01:03:23] So, he’s starting to realize,

[01:03:25] okay, this kind of fucked us.

[01:03:27] The power that these

[01:03:28] inchoate groups

[01:03:29] of angry white dudes

[01:03:30] on the internet,

[01:03:31] it kind of fucked

[01:03:32] the business now.

[01:03:33] But you could manipulate

[01:03:35] these guys.

[01:03:36] Right.

[01:03:36] You could tune them up

[01:03:37] and turn them on an enemy

[01:03:38] and unleash them as a weapon.

[01:03:41] And they have the ability

[01:03:42] to do some damage, right?

[01:03:43] This is where Bannon

[01:03:45] makes that realization.

[01:03:47] Right.

[01:03:47] And I know, folks,

[01:03:49] that we’re 55 minutes in

[01:03:50] and I barely talked about Epstein

[01:03:51] past the introduction.

[01:03:52] Trust me,

[01:03:52] we’re coming back to him.

[01:03:53] This is all necessary

[01:03:55] groundwork for you

[01:03:56] to understand Epstein’s role

[01:03:57] in all this.

[01:03:59] Oh, God.

[01:04:00] So, Brock Pierce

[01:04:01] would later describe

[01:04:02] Steve Bannon

[01:04:03] as saying,

[01:04:03] as his right-hand man

[01:04:04] for like seven years,

[01:04:05] which, again,

[01:04:06] suggests there were

[01:04:06] no hard feelings

[01:04:07] about Bannon replacing him

[01:04:08] as CEO of IGE.

[01:04:10] Not long after

[01:04:10] leaving the company,

[01:04:12] Brock gets involved

[01:04:13] in the world of cryptocurrency.

[01:04:14] That’s kind of his next move

[01:04:16] after gaming.

[01:04:17] He founds a company

[01:04:18] called Blockchain Capital.

[01:04:20] And this is a,

[01:04:21] he is a member

[01:04:22] of the Clinton Global Initiative

[01:04:23] that he founds this under, right?

[01:04:25] Well, he’s like

[01:04:26] part of the Clinton Global Initiative

[01:04:28] as he creates Blockchain Capital,

[01:04:30] which, again,

[01:04:31] the Clintons are very tied

[01:04:32] to Epstein.

[01:04:33] Right?

[01:04:33] And that may be part

[01:04:34] of how Jeffrey Epstein

[01:04:35] heard about Brock Pierce

[01:04:36] for the first time

[01:04:37] is because Pierce is tied in

[01:04:40] through the Clinton Global Initiative.

[01:04:42] Now, let’s perspective shift

[01:04:44] back to our old pal, Jeffrey.

[01:04:46] He had served time

[01:04:47] in 2008 and 2009

[01:04:49] for soliciting sex

[01:04:51] from a minor, right?

[01:04:53] But he was, by 2010,

[01:04:55] a free man.

[01:04:56] He was still rich

[01:04:57] and he was still influential,

[01:04:58] but he was something

[01:04:59] of a pariah,

[01:05:00] at least to normal people.

[01:05:01] He’s not a pariah

[01:05:02] to the powerhouse,

[01:05:03] to the power elite.

[01:05:03] He’s not a pariah

[01:05:04] to the people running

[01:05:05] the New York Times,

[01:05:06] to a lot of people

[01:05:06] working at the Times.

[01:05:08] He’s not a pariah

[01:05:08] to a lot of Harvard professors,

[01:05:11] to a lot of famous academics

[01:05:12] and scientists,

[01:05:13] to a lot of celebrities.

[01:05:15] But he’s, like,

[01:05:16] in public,

[01:05:17] is a guy who got arrested

[01:05:19] for fucking a kid,

[01:05:20] you know?

[01:05:20] Yeah.

[01:05:21] Right?

[01:05:21] And this aided him.

[01:05:23] He hates the fact

[01:05:24] that, like,

[01:05:25] he had to take an L, right?

[01:05:27] And he sees it

[01:05:28] as this kind of petty

[01:05:29] because his friends are like,

[01:05:29] man, you kind of got off light,

[01:05:31] which he did.

[01:05:32] But it really

[01:05:33] bugs him

[01:05:33] that he had to suffer

[01:05:35] any consequences at all

[01:05:36] because he doesn’t think

[01:05:36] he’s done anything wrong.

[01:05:38] Now, it would take years.

[01:05:40] Evidence suggests

[01:05:40] that his peer group

[01:05:42] will not face consequences

[01:05:43] for the same behavior,

[01:05:44] so in a sense,

[01:05:46] he’s right.

[01:05:47] resigned or whatever,

[01:05:48] but yes, yeah.

[01:05:48] Yeah.

[01:05:49] So it’s going to take years

[01:05:51] for the reality

[01:05:52] of Epstein’s conviction

[01:05:53] and what the scattered stories

[01:05:55] from his victims meant

[01:05:56] to coalesce

[01:05:57] into a widespread

[01:05:58] understanding

[01:05:59] of his crimes, right?

[01:06:00] In 2010,

[01:06:02] 2009, 10,

[01:06:03] not a lot of people

[01:06:03] are talking about Epstein

[01:06:04] as, like,

[01:06:05] this vast child sex trafficker

[01:06:07] who has this, like,

[01:06:08] secret empire

[01:06:09] that all of the world,

[01:06:10] that takes some time

[01:06:12] to build up

[01:06:12] as more stories come out,

[01:06:14] as our understanding

[01:06:15] gets broader.

[01:06:15] There are some people

[01:06:16] who understand that

[01:06:18] about him from this stage,

[01:06:19] particularly his victims,

[01:06:21] but it’s not widely known

[01:06:22] at this point.

[01:06:24] But he can,

[01:06:25] he’s kind of watching

[01:06:26] as he’s sitting

[01:06:26] in his Manhattan penthouse

[01:06:28] or on his private sex island,

[01:06:29] he’s slowly over the years

[01:06:30] watching the story

[01:06:31] come together,

[01:06:31] watching people start to

[01:06:33] become more and more aware

[01:06:34] of what he’d done.

[01:06:36] And he seems to,

[01:06:37] this is, I think,

[01:06:38] his radicalizing moment

[01:06:39] because he sees

[01:06:40] a few different enemies

[01:06:41] coalescing to ruin his life,

[01:06:44] right?

[01:06:44] And this alliance

[01:06:46] is roughly

[01:06:47] a mix between

[01:06:48] you’ve got your busybody feminists,

[01:06:51] right,

[01:06:51] including a lot of his victims,

[01:06:53] you’ve got meddlesome reporters,

[01:06:55] and of course,

[01:06:56] you’ve got, you know,

[01:06:57] the actual people

[01:06:58] that he hurt, right?

[01:06:59] You’ve got these, like,

[01:06:59] feminist activists,

[01:07:00] you’ve got these

[01:07:01] meddlesome journalists,

[01:07:02] and you’ve got

[01:07:02] his former victims,

[01:07:03] all of whom won’t shut up, right?

[01:07:05] That’s how Epstein sees this.

[01:07:07] And the answer

[01:07:08] to all of these problems,

[01:07:09] he seems to have decided,

[01:07:10] was to use his position

[01:07:12] of influence

[01:07:12] to push for a change

[01:07:14] in the culture,

[01:07:15] to a culture where

[01:07:16] maybe journalists,

[01:07:17] or at least the kind of journalists

[01:07:18] who will report on this stuff,

[01:07:20] have less interest,

[01:07:21] where maybe women

[01:07:22] are more frightened

[01:07:23] to speak up

[01:07:23] and where maybe victims

[01:07:24] have fewer rights, you know?

[01:07:26] I really do think

[01:07:27] a lot of his…

[01:07:29] What a great guy.

[01:07:30] Yeah, he’s a cool dude.

[01:07:31] Jesus Christ.

[01:07:32] So his feelings

[01:07:33] on all of this evolved

[01:07:34] as he tried to crack down

[01:07:36] on uncomfortable reporting

[01:07:37] about his life.

[01:07:38] In a write-up

[01:07:38] for the website Protos,

[01:07:40] Cass Pianci writes,

[01:07:41] In an effort

[01:07:42] to halt the decline,

[01:07:43] Epstein seeks out help

[01:07:44] from Alfred Seckle,

[01:07:45] a.k.a. Al Seckle,

[01:07:47] a serial scammer

[01:07:48] and illusionist

[01:07:48] who’s been dating

[01:07:49] Gill and Maxwell’s sister,

[01:07:51] Isabel, for years.

[01:07:52] Epstein tasks Seckle

[01:07:54] with what he presumes

[01:07:54] to be a relatively cheap

[01:07:56] and easy job,

[01:07:57] wipe the internet

[01:07:58] of his sins.

[01:07:59] This proves to be

[01:08:00] a pipe dream,

[01:08:01] whether due to

[01:08:01] Seckle’s own incompetence

[01:08:03] and greed

[01:08:03] or due to Epstein’s

[01:08:04] unrepairable reputation,

[01:08:05] a $25,000 job

[01:08:07] becomes a $45,000 job

[01:08:09] with an added

[01:08:09] luxury conference

[01:08:10] called the Mindshift Conference

[01:08:12] hosted on Little St. James

[01:08:14] and to be paid for

[01:08:15] by the Epstein Foundation.

[01:08:17] And this is meaningful.

[01:08:19] That’s the most important thing

[01:08:20] about his connection

[01:08:21] to this con man,

[01:08:21] Al Seckle, right?

[01:08:22] Is that Seckle says,

[01:08:24] hey, you need to hold

[01:08:25] a conference

[01:08:26] on your sex island

[01:08:28] about, like,

[01:08:29] all of the different shifts

[01:08:30] that are taking place

[01:08:31] in technology

[01:08:31] and, like,

[01:08:33] philosophy

[01:08:34] and psychology, right?

[01:08:36] Which is going to include

[01:08:37] cryptocurrency,

[01:08:38] which is why

[01:08:39] Brock Pierce

[01:08:39] is going to get invited,

[01:08:41] right?

[01:08:41] Now, Al Seckle

[01:08:43] is a con man

[01:08:44] and I think kind of similar

[01:08:45] to Collins Rector,

[01:08:46] perhaps a bit more shameless.

[01:08:48] So the Mindshift Conference

[01:08:49] is a massive failure

[01:08:50] if judged by its stated goals.

[01:08:53] It does not go over well.

[01:08:55] Epstein, like,

[01:08:56] when he starts getting

[01:08:57] involved in this,

[01:08:58] Epstein views

[01:08:59] the Mindshift Conference

[01:09:00] like this is going to be

[01:09:00] my TED Talks.

[01:09:01] Like, I’m going to create

[01:09:02] the new TED Talks, right?

[01:09:04] The new TED Talks

[01:09:05] are on my private

[01:09:06] child molestation island,

[01:09:08] right?

[01:09:09] This is where

[01:09:11] everything you need to know

[01:09:12] in all fucking domains

[01:09:14] is going to happen.

[01:09:14] Oh, God.

[01:09:15] God.

[01:09:16] These people are so dumb.

[01:09:19] They’re so dumb

[01:09:20] and they’re all

[01:09:20] the same fucking sad weirdo,

[01:09:23] right?

[01:09:23] Like, the idea that, like,

[01:09:24] I need a TED Talk of my own,

[01:09:26] that’ll make people forget

[01:09:27] I’m a pedophile.

[01:09:28] Yeah.

[01:09:29] So most of the panels

[01:09:30] at this conference

[01:09:31] are, like,

[01:09:31] a bust.

[01:09:32] But one of the invited speakers

[01:09:33] is Brock Pierce.

[01:09:34] And again,

[01:09:35] maybe this connection comes

[01:09:36] because of the Clinton Foundation,

[01:09:38] you know,

[01:09:38] because he’s,

[01:09:39] Clinton is aware of this guy

[01:09:41] and Clinton knows Jeffrey.

[01:09:42] I don’t exactly know.

[01:09:44] But Brock Pierce

[01:09:45] has invited this thing

[01:09:46] and he gives a talk

[01:09:47] about crypto.

[01:09:48] And Epstein likes this.

[01:09:49] He later writes to a colleague

[01:09:50] that he found

[01:09:51] the young entrepreneur

[01:09:52] interesting.

[01:09:53] And Brock is kind of

[01:09:54] the only good thing

[01:09:55] about this conference

[01:09:56] as Epstein sees it, right?

[01:09:57] How old is Brock at this time?

[01:09:59] Brock is in his 20s

[01:10:00] at this point.

[01:10:01] Right?

[01:10:01] Right.

[01:10:02] So Epstein increasingly finds

[01:10:05] Brock’s pet cause,

[01:10:06] cryptocurrency,

[01:10:07] intriguing.

[01:10:08] This is what gets Epstein

[01:10:09] interested in crypto.

[01:10:10] As Pianci writes,

[01:10:12] previously Jeffrey Epstein

[01:10:13] had considered Bitcoin

[01:10:15] and its ilk

[01:10:16] to be only useful

[01:10:17] for criminals.

[01:10:18] And it’s unclear

[01:10:19] what about Brock’s presentation

[01:10:20] changed Epstein’s mind,

[01:10:22] but the fact that Jeffrey

[01:10:23] was himself

[01:10:24] now a convicted criminal

[01:10:25] may have played a role.

[01:10:26] Maybe it’s just that, like,

[01:10:27] this is only for criminals.

[01:10:28] Oh, but I’m a criminal now.

[01:10:29] Yeah, exactly.

[01:10:30] Maybe I gotta get on board.

[01:10:31] That’s clear.

[01:10:32] Yeah.

[01:10:33] Right.

[01:10:33] Yeah.

[01:10:34] It’s so funny that he had

[01:10:35] the correct, like,

[01:10:37] point of view on it.

[01:10:38] No, no, you’re right.

[01:10:39] It’s for money laundering.

[01:10:40] It’s for money laundering, dude.

[01:10:42] So Epstein’s relationship

[01:10:44] with Al Seckle

[01:10:45] fell apart after the conference.

[01:10:47] Al tried to sell him

[01:10:48] a bunch of fake art

[01:10:48] and antiquities

[01:10:49] and got himself blacklisted.

[01:10:51] But Epstein’s broader interest

[01:10:52] in Brock Pierce

[01:10:53] and cryptocurrency

[01:10:54] continue after this point.

[01:10:56] In June of 2007,

[01:10:58] Epstein starts emailing

[01:10:59] with Gavin Anderson,

[01:11:00] the successor

[01:11:01] to Satoshi Nakamoto,

[01:11:03] the creator of Bitcoin.

[01:11:05] Now, we don’t actually know

[01:11:06] who Nakamoto really was.

[01:11:07] This is a big mystery

[01:11:08] in the world of Bitcoin.

[01:11:10] But he picks Anderson

[01:11:12] to be the lead maintainer

[01:11:13] of Bitcoin development

[01:11:14] after he retires

[01:11:16] in April of 2011.

[01:11:18] And we don’t know why he retired.

[01:11:20] Some people suggest

[01:11:21] that it’s because of what

[01:11:23] Anderson was talking about

[01:11:24] doing at this point in time,

[01:11:26] which is Anderson,

[01:11:27] right around the time

[01:11:28] Nakamoto retires,

[01:11:29] starts talking about

[01:11:30] how he’s going to give

[01:11:30] a talk on Bitcoin

[01:11:32] to the CIA,

[01:11:33] like at CIA headquarters

[01:11:34] in Langley.

[01:11:36] And this is, to say the least,

[01:11:37] controversial

[01:11:38] among cryptocurrency advocates,

[01:11:40] right?

[01:11:41] The first wave of crypto enthusiasts

[01:11:43] are libertarian

[01:11:44] and they’re very anti-state people.

[01:11:46] This is an ideological thing

[01:11:48] for a lot of them.

[01:11:49] And they don’t like the CIA very much.

[01:11:52] The fact that Andreessen,

[01:11:54] basically, as soon as he becomes

[01:11:55] the director of the project

[01:11:57] after Nakamoto is like,

[01:11:58] I’m going to go talk

[01:11:58] to the CIA about it,

[01:11:59] is kind of,

[01:12:00] giving up the game

[01:12:01] for the real money people

[01:12:03] in crypto, right?

[01:12:05] Which is,

[01:12:06] this isn’t about

[01:12:06] escaping the state.

[01:12:08] You’re not freeing yourselves

[01:12:09] from the shackles

[01:12:10] of the government.

[01:12:11] You’re co-opting it, right?

[01:12:14] Crypto is,

[01:12:15] as we’ve seen from the president,

[01:12:16] right?

[01:12:17] We’re like, no,

[01:12:18] he’s,

[01:12:19] fucking Bitcoin

[01:12:20] didn’t free people

[01:12:21] from the clutches

[01:12:22] of the government

[01:12:22] and the Federal Reserve.

[01:12:23] It gave the president

[01:12:25] a way to take bribes.

[01:12:26] Yeah.

[01:12:27] Right?

[01:12:27] It privatized.

[01:12:28] Crypto function now.

[01:12:30] All those fucking

[01:12:31] horrible functions.

[01:12:32] So now any,

[01:12:33] any rich fool can do it.

[01:12:35] Yeah.

[01:12:37] But this is really

[01:12:38] controversial at the time,

[01:12:39] right?

[01:12:40] So Epstein emails Andreessen

[01:12:41] two days before he talks

[01:12:43] to the CIA.

[01:12:44] And he seems to have

[01:12:45] started fishing around.

[01:12:47] He’s asking his contacts

[01:12:48] for Gavin’s phone number.

[01:12:49] Does anyone know this guy?

[01:12:50] Does anyone have his number?

[01:12:52] A few weeks earlier,

[01:12:53] he starts by asking

[01:12:54] Bay Area socialite

[01:12:55] and professional hanger

[01:12:56] on Jason Calacanis,

[01:12:57] who is also close

[01:12:58] to Elon Musk.

[01:12:59] And eventually,

[01:13:00] he gets the info.

[01:13:01] And the two seem

[01:13:02] to have gotten in touch

[01:13:03] on the 12th.

[01:13:04] He’s like emailing

[01:13:05] and he asks Brock

[01:13:06] directly for his phone number.

[01:13:08] We don’t know what the two,

[01:13:09] if the two talked on the phone.

[01:13:11] We don’t know what

[01:13:11] they would have talked about.

[01:13:13] But on the 14th,

[01:13:14] two days after he connects

[01:13:16] directly with Epstein,

[01:13:17] Andreessen speaks

[01:13:18] to the CIA at Langley.

[01:13:20] The next day,

[01:13:21] Epstein emails Andreessen

[01:13:22] about meeting in person.

[01:13:23] And we don’t know if they did,

[01:13:25] but we know that he declined

[01:13:26] several invitations to do so.

[01:13:28] Right?

[01:13:29] Like we don’t know

[01:13:30] to what extent these people,

[01:13:32] we don’t know if they talked

[01:13:33] on the phone.

[01:13:33] We know they’re emailing a bunch.

[01:13:34] We know Epstein’s trying

[01:13:35] to get in touch with them.

[01:13:36] We know Epstein talks

[01:13:37] about meeting him in person.

[01:13:38] We don’t know

[01:13:39] what actually happens.

[01:13:40] And as I’ll talk about,

[01:13:41] there’s some other times

[01:13:43] when Epstein will mention Andreessen

[01:13:44] that make me think

[01:13:46] he and Gavin had more

[01:13:47] of a relationship

[01:13:48] than Gavin wants to admit,

[01:13:50] or that is publicly known.

[01:13:52] Right?

[01:13:52] And one of the issues here

[01:13:53] is that we just have

[01:13:54] what these people emailed about.

[01:13:56] And in fact,

[01:13:57] if you search through variations

[01:13:58] of like,

[01:13:59] not for email

[01:14:00] or like,

[01:14:02] you know,

[01:14:02] for phone only

[01:14:03] or stuff like that

[01:14:04] in the Epstein files,

[01:14:05] you’ll find the Epstein

[01:14:06] periodically being like,

[01:14:08] hey, we got to take this offline.

[01:14:09] Like this is an in-person conversation.

[01:14:11] This is something

[01:14:11] we got to talk about on the phone.

[01:14:13] So the fact that we can’t prove

[01:14:15] via the emails

[01:14:16] that Epstein and Gavin

[01:14:17] were connecting

[01:14:18] or what they were talking about

[01:14:20] doesn’t mean they weren’t.

[01:14:22] Right?

[01:14:22] Because a lot of this stuff

[01:14:24] is just kind of off the record.

[01:14:26] But we know that Epstein

[01:14:27] was working hard

[01:14:28] to be in contact

[01:14:29] with them

[01:14:30] and that they had the potential

[01:14:31] to be in contact

[01:14:32] and that Epstein

[01:14:33] talks about Gavin

[01:14:34] as if they were in contact

[01:14:36] at other points.

[01:14:37] Right?

[01:14:38] So that’s what I can say.

[01:14:39] Whatever the two discussed,

[01:14:41] if they discussed anything,

[01:14:42] Epstein plunges ahead

[01:14:43] into the world of cryptocurrency

[01:14:44] after this point.

[01:14:46] He continues talking

[01:14:47] with Brock Pierce as well.

[01:14:48] The two met repeatedly

[01:14:49] in person in 2001

[01:14:51] and Epstein offers Pierce

[01:14:53] financial advice.

[01:14:54] Brock eventually comes to him

[01:14:56] and admits that he hasn’t

[01:14:56] paid his taxes in years

[01:14:58] and Epstein helps him

[01:14:58] sort that out.

[01:15:00] Their friendship continues

[01:15:01] into the spring of 2012,

[01:15:03] which is the first time

[01:15:03] that we have a record

[01:15:04] of Epstein providing girls

[01:15:06] to Brock Pierce.

[01:15:07] And you can see the email

[01:15:09] chain up on the website.

[01:15:10] It starts with Jeffrey Epstein

[01:15:13] saying,

[01:15:14] victim name and victim name

[01:15:15] are alone in LA.

[01:15:16] I had to leave.

[01:15:18] Please assist.

[01:15:19] Leave your girlfriend home.

[01:15:20] And then a large redacted

[01:15:23] section of the email.

[01:15:25] And Brock responds,

[01:15:26] will do.

[01:15:26] Broke up with the girlfriend

[01:15:27] last night.

[01:15:28] So that,

[01:15:28] that won’t be a problem.

[01:15:30] Best regards,

[01:15:31] Brock.

[01:15:32] To which Epstein responds,

[01:15:34] call me a little later.

[01:15:36] And then Brock replies

[01:15:38] the next day,

[01:15:38] I had a great time

[01:15:39] with the girls.

[01:15:40] Hope they had fun too.

[01:15:42] So we know at this point,

[01:15:45] and you know,

[01:15:45] I might say if this was

[01:15:47] any other group of people,

[01:15:48] well, girls,

[01:15:49] sometimes people refer to

[01:15:50] adult women that way.

[01:15:53] I’m not going to assume

[01:15:54] that here.

[01:15:55] I’m not going to assume

[01:15:57] these are not literal

[01:15:58] girls.

[01:15:58] Because it’s Jeffrey Epstein.

[01:16:01] Yeah.

[01:16:02] You know?

[01:16:04] Ew.

[01:16:05] And Epstein’s relationship

[01:16:06] with Brock

[01:16:07] and his interest in Bitcoin

[01:16:08] are only going to expand

[01:16:09] from this point on.

[01:16:11] And both are going to bring

[01:16:12] him into the orbit

[01:16:13] of several major figures

[01:16:14] on the new right,

[01:16:14] including Steve Bannon.

[01:16:16] And we’ll talk about all that

[01:16:17] and much more

[01:16:18] in part two.

[01:16:20] I know there wasn’t

[01:16:20] as much Epstein

[01:16:21] as you may have expected.

[01:16:22] I mean, we got a bit,

[01:16:23] a good bit at the beginning

[01:16:24] and the end.

[01:16:25] We need contracts.

[01:16:26] There’s a lot you have to hear

[01:16:27] about Brock Pierce first.

[01:16:28] To understand why

[01:16:29] all this matters.

[01:16:30] The reason people tune in

[01:16:32] is for backstory.

[01:16:33] You know,

[01:16:34] you find the shit

[01:16:35] that I’m like,

[01:16:36] yeah.

[01:16:36] That’s the pod.

[01:16:37] Yeah.

[01:16:38] And somehow Seinfeld

[01:16:39] did in fact come up,

[01:16:41] which was incredible.

[01:16:42] Yeah.

[01:16:43] Good for him.

[01:16:43] Yeah.

[01:16:44] Yeah.

[01:16:45] Well,

[01:16:45] you got any pluggables to plug?

[01:16:48] Oh, I don’t know.

[01:16:49] Making a show called

[01:16:50] Starter Trek

[01:16:50] on our premium site,

[01:16:52] suboptimalpod.com.

[01:16:54] I saw you were watching

[01:16:55] a little bit of

[01:16:56] Starfleet Academy, Robert.

[01:16:58] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:16:58] In the first couple.

[01:16:59] Yeah.

[01:17:00] Yeah.

[01:17:00] Yeah.

[01:17:00] But my co-host,

[01:17:02] Tawny Newsom’s a writer on that.

[01:17:03] Oh, shit.

[01:17:04] Right, right, right.

[01:17:05] Yeah, I love Tawny.

[01:17:05] Yeah.

[01:17:06] Beckett Mariner on Lower Decks.

[01:17:08] So,

[01:17:09] yeah.

[01:17:10] We’re watching

[01:17:11] Star Trek episodes.

[01:17:13] Excellent.

[01:17:13] And I have seen a bunch,

[01:17:15] but I don’t know

[01:17:16] nearly as much as her.

[01:17:17] So, I’m doing it.

[01:17:17] That’s fine.

[01:17:18] No, no.

[01:17:19] It’s really fun.

[01:17:20] There’s very few people

[01:17:21] involved in making Star Trek

[01:17:22] that I feel like

[01:17:23] really know Star Trek.

[01:17:25] And Tawny is one of them.

[01:17:27] Tawny knows so much.

[01:17:28] Tawny really knows Star Trek.

[01:17:29] It’s wild.

[01:17:30] Yeah.

[01:17:32] I’ve got a thing to plug

[01:17:33] before we go out here.

[01:17:34] I met with just somebody

[01:17:35] last night

[01:17:36] when I was out at a bar

[01:17:37] who told me about

[01:17:38] a local Portland charity

[01:17:40] called the Artist Mentorship Program,

[01:17:42] a.k.a. AMP,

[01:17:44] which supports youth

[01:17:45] experiencing homelessness

[01:17:46] and has done so

[01:17:47] for over 30 years.

[01:17:48] It serves young people

[01:17:49] aged 15 to 25

[01:17:50] and provides essential supplies

[01:17:52] and job training

[01:17:53] with music and art programs

[01:17:54] at the heart of its work.

[01:17:56] If you’d like to support

[01:17:57] or learn more,

[01:17:58] about AMP,

[01:17:59] you can go to

[01:18:00] amppdx.org.

[01:18:02] That’s amppdx.org.

[01:18:05] It’s a good cause.

[01:18:07] Check them out.

[01:18:11] Behind the Bastards

[01:18:12] is a production

[01:18:13] of Cool Zone Media.

[01:18:14] For more from Cool Zone Media,

[01:18:16] visit our website,

[01:18:17] coolzonemedia.com,

[01:18:18] or check us out

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[01:18:23] Full video episodes

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[01:18:47] and I have a new podcast

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[01:20:22] It’s about the hang.

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[01:20:26] that you’re with.

[01:20:27] You know, Robin,

[01:20:28] I was always a great hang.

[01:20:29] And journalist Chris Whipple.

[01:20:31] Every White House staffer,

[01:20:33] they work in a bubble

[01:20:34] called the West Wing.

[01:20:35] And it’s exponentially

[01:20:37] more so

[01:20:38] in the Trump White House.

[01:20:40] Listen to the new season

[01:20:42] of Here’s the Thing

[01:20:43] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:20:45] or wherever you get

[01:20:46] your podcasts.

[01:20:47] This is an iHeart podcast.

[01:20:50] Guaranteed human.

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