Vox

Leitura de 94 min

Part Four: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World

Summary

This concluding episode of the Behind the Bastards series on Jeffrey Epstein examines his post-arrest intellectual and political evolution, focusing on his role in shaping reactionary movements. The hosts argue that the 2014 Ferguson protests were a pivotal moment that heightened Epstein’s racial fears, leading him to embrace and fund white nationalist ideas, scientific racism, and anti-trans propaganda.

Epstein’s correspondence reveals his attempts to influence major intellectuals like Noam Chomsky, pushing them to consider “uncomfortable questions” about race and genetics. He funded the Edge Foundation, a salon for billionaires and intellectuals that served as a precursor to the Intellectual Dark Web, using it to connect with tech moguls like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg.

The episode details Epstein’s specific funding of anti-trans research through scientists like Lawrence Krauss and Robert Trivers, showing a direct line from his financial support to the creation of pseudoscientific justifications for transphobia. His friendship and strategic partnership with Steve Bannon is highlighted, revealing their shared goals of subverting democracy and discussing plans to hire hackers to influence elections.

Ultimately, the portrait that emerges is of Epstein as an active node in a network of wealthy reactionaries, using his money and connections to mainstream racist, eugenicist, and anti-trans ideas that have shaped contemporary right-wing politics. The hosts conclude that even without his sex crimes, Epstein’s ideological influence makes him a key figure in understanding the modern backlash against social progress.

Recommendations

Articles

  • Ferguson braces for more unrest (CNN) — An article linked in an email from Ehud Barak to Jeffrey Epstein after the Ferguson grand jury decision, which they discussed as part of their predictions about racial unrest.
  • The New Republic article by Evgeny Morozov — An article describing John Brockman as the ‘intellectual enabler of Epstein’ and detailing how Brockman baited hooks for intellectuals by mentioning Epstein’s wealth, his ‘beautiful young assistant from Belarus,’ and his connection to Prince Andrew.
  • Trans News Network article by Mandy Castigan — An article that describes the Edge Foundation as a ‘loose predecessor for the far-right intellectual dark web’ and uncovers connections between Epstein, the IDW, and anti-trans figures.
  • Queer Science Lab article by Dr. Ev Nichols — A piece investigating Epstein’s emails for discussions of ‘transsexuality,’ which uncovered his funding of Robert Trivers’ anti-trans pseudoscience and the story of his first accuser, trans woman Ava Cordero.

Organizations

  • The Edge Foundation — An informal online association of intellectuals and billionaires founded by John Brockman. It was largely funded by Epstein and hosted exclusive ‘Billionaires Dinners’ that connected Epstein to major tech figures. Described as a precursor to the Intellectual Dark Web.

People

  • John Brockman — A literary agent and founder of the Edge Foundation, described as Epstein’s ‘PR man’ and connector, who used stories of Epstein’s parties with Prince Andrew to intrigue intellectuals and scientists.
  • Lawrence Krauss — A physicist and right-wing crank, close friend of Epstein who hosted conferences on Epstein’s island. He defended Epstein publicly, received funding from him and Leon Black, and later started an anti-trans podcast with Epstein’s support.
  • Robert Trivers — An evolutionary biologist funded by Epstein to produce anti-trans ‘research.’ He publicly justified Epstein’s pedophilia and corresponded with Epstein using dehumanizing, fetishistic language about trans people.
  • Steve Bannon — A far-right strategist who formed a deep partnership with Epstein. They texted frequently about geopolitics, hacking, and mocking Donald Trump, with Bannon giving Epstein image rehabilitation advice.

Topic Timeline

  • 00:06:52 — Ferguson as a turning point for Epstein’s ideology — The hosts introduce the 2014 Ferguson protests as a key moment that scared wealthy white elites like Epstein. They connect this event to Epstein’s subsequent donations to far-right content creators and his open discussions about race science. An email from former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak confirms Epstein was analyzing and predicting the unrest, showing his deep engagement with racial politics.
  • 00:12:00 — Epstein’s eugenics and race science funding — The discussion shifts to Epstein’s long-standing eugenicist ideas about seeding his DNA. After Ferguson, this evolved into explicit scientific racism, including a $400,000 donation to an MIT professor to explore genetically modifying Black people to be ‘smarter.’ The hosts frame this as Epstein becoming a ‘race science Nazi,’ reflecting a broader shift among tech billionaires and intellectuals towards fascist-adjacent thinking.
  • 00:14:47 — Epstein’s attempt to influence Noam Chomsky — The hosts read a 2016 email exchange where Epstein, after inviting Chomsky to his island, tries to engage him in a debate about race and IQ, citing discredited racist James Watson. Chomsky pushes back but maintains the friendship. The hosts argue this shows Epstein actively trying to corrupt influential left-wing figures to mainstream scientific racism, viewing friendships as transactional opportunities for influence.
  • 00:23:49 — John Brockman and the Edge Foundation — The episode introduces John Brockman, a literary agent and ‘cultural impresario’ who founded the Edge Foundation, an online salon for intellectuals. Brockman acted as Epstein’s connector, introducing him to major figures like Steven Pinker and Joi Ito. The Edge Foundation, largely funded by Epstein, hosted exclusive ‘Billionaires Dinners’ with guests like Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg, serving as a loose predecessor to the Intellectual Dark Web.
  • 00:42:00 — Epstein’s funding of anti-trans propaganda — This section details Epstein’s specific funding of anti-trans research and propaganda. He supported physicist Lawrence Krauss, who faced his own sexual misconduct allegations, in creating an anti-trans podcast. More extensively, he funded evolutionary biologist Robert Trivers to produce ‘research’ denying trans identity, explicitly telling Trivers to focus on ‘transgender biology’ because ‘people would be interested.’ This pseudoscience was later cited by anti-trans hate groups.
  • 00:54:48 — Epstein’s first accuser was a trans woman — The hosts reveal that the first person to publicly accuse Epstein of abuse was a transgender Latina woman named Ava Cordero in 2007. Her case was dismissed due to the statute of limitations and widely mocked in the media (e.g., a New York Post headline: ‘Gender Bend Shocker, Kinky Sex Suit Gal is a Man’). The hosts connect the fetishization and dehumanization of trans people by men like Epstein and Trivers to the broader anti-trans movement they funded.
  • 01:12:35 — Epstein’s partnership with Steve Bannon — The final major topic explores the deep partnership between Epstein and Steve Bannon. Their texts show them mocking Trump, planning to influence international geopolitics, and discussing hiring hackers to target crypto wallets and voting booths. Bannon gave Epstein PR advice after his arrest, and Epstein advised men impacted by MeToo. The hosts present this relationship as the culmination of Epstein’s role as a reactionary influencer and fixer.

Episode Info

  • Podcast: Behind the Bastards
  • Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
  • Category: Society & Culture History News
  • Published: 2026-02-26T10:00:00Z
  • Duration: 01:10:16

References

Podcast Info

Transcript

[00:00:00] welcome back for the last time today i guess or this week behind the bastards we’re done with

[00:00:13] the epstein update episodes for now uh this this episode will be our last andrew t welcome back to

[00:00:19] the show oh thanks sir thanks thanks in scare quotes for having me yeah thanks in scare quotes

[00:00:25] the only thanks we get here i realize what your show is you’re you’re sort of like just like a low

[00:00:31] memetic version of the the ring where yeah after after having been on this show or listening to it

[00:00:38] you know in seven days you will want to die yeah yeah that’s that’s the that’s that’s what we go

[00:00:44] for here at behind the bastards is to make all of our listeners want to die just um god no you know

[00:00:51] what less this has been less grim than i thought it was gonna be i i will say not that it’s not

[00:00:55] grim but the nice thing that’s we’re saying the nice thing about doing these epstein episodes is

[00:01:02] that we already did the ones where we talked there’s a lot more detail out now and yeah we

[00:01:06] probably should at some point go back but we talked at length in the previous like four episodes

[00:01:10] about all of the horrible sex trafficking crimes so the fact that we’re just kind of focusing mostly

[00:01:15] on other stuff here makes it less nightmarish than if we’re just going over all of the evidence

[00:01:20] right child molestation yeah um not that we don’t want to be highlighting that but we

[00:01:25] did

[00:01:25] and everyone knows that stuff and i think this is also important so we’re getting into it um of

[00:01:31] course i’m still pretty scowly yeah i know there’s a lot that makes me sad as i said in an earlier

[00:01:37] episode it’s like even without that shit he would be one of the worst people ever yeah yeah and this

[00:01:43] it’s one of those things if it weren’t for the fact that he was also the giant pedophile guy

[00:01:47] i probably wouldn’t be writing about just jeffrey epstein’s because that for one thing we just don’t

[00:01:52] know there’s a lot of like did he actually get moot

[00:01:55] to create poll or no like right we just will never know but because of the other stuff like

[00:02:01] i feel like we do have to talk about how deeply tied he is to all of these massively important

[00:02:06] things that are happening in society that he’s talking to the major players and trying to

[00:02:11] convince them of things right um it’s weird because this is kind of the only behind the

[00:02:15] bastards where for the most part i’m saying like well we know he was trying to do something with

[00:02:20] this bad thing but we don’t know how he influenced this bad thing which we don’t normally do here

[00:02:24] but i don’t know what to do with it i don’t know what to do with it i don’t know what to do with it

[00:02:25] how else to handle epstein right now right we also don’t know the history of everything that you

[00:02:31] know this bad thing which is in progress ryan broderick says you know michael wolf probably

[00:02:38] connected epstein and bannon in 2017 but there’s evidence from earlier that they would have known

[00:02:43] about each other and were traveling in similar circles but i can’t prove they were in contact

[00:02:47] earlier but also millions of documents haven’t been released yet so like who knows what else

[00:02:52] right right or did bannon used to have

[00:02:55] different email right but it wasn’t under his name i don’t know um it may be there may be early

[00:03:01] emails for them under different emails in the files that we just haven’t found because it’s

[00:03:05] not immediately clear that it’s bannon yet there’s stuff like that people have talked about like jk

[00:03:09] rowling how like well she definitely he was on the invite list for you know the harry potter play

[00:03:15] when it opened but she says they had no direct connection there’s not really hard evidence of

[00:03:19] a direct connection but there is an email with a cinder redacted where it’s signed the way jk

[00:03:24] rowling sometimes

[00:03:25] signed stuff but that’s not conclusive so i don’t know right right and yeah hopefully as more stuff

[00:03:31] comes out maybe there is even more about her in the current files that just haven’t been found yet

[00:03:36] because people we haven’t no no one knows everything that’s in these files yet stuff’s

[00:03:41] being found every day right right um so that’s one of the issues with this is that i decided

[00:03:47] there was enough obviously for four episodes now but in a year people will probably be angry at

[00:03:52] well you left this out well because people hadn’t found it yet i don’t know man like

[00:03:55] or there’s stuff i know i’m leaving out now that i did find that was on my research doc that i was

[00:04:01] just like well this is 42 pages long we got to call it somewhere huh um and you know what that’s

[00:04:07] the beauty of podcasting there’s always more podcasts that’s the beauty of podcasting you

[00:04:11] can always say good enough this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human talking to your kids

[00:04:21] about the dangers of vaping can be hard getting them to listen to hot gossip is the best way to

[00:04:25] so here’s some drama you could share with your kid

[00:04:28] dude did you hear about cassie and jake no but did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible

[00:04:35] lung damage and nicotine affects brain development

[00:04:37] you don’t need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping so if you want to

[00:04:44] get tips on when and how to talk to your kids visit talkaboutvaping.org brought to you by the

[00:04:49] american lung association and the ad council almost 30 years together four kids and some of

[00:04:53] reality tv’s most unscrupulous kids

[00:04:55] unforgettable moments we’re taking you behind the scenes in our podcast between us with me

[00:05:00] heather dubrow and me terry dubrow the unfiltered behind closed doors conversations you wish you

[00:05:06] could eavesdrop on and plenty of did they just say that moments but what’s the latest rumor i’m

[00:05:11] gay right first of all if i were gay i would be gay open your free iheart radio app search between

[00:05:18] us and listen now hi i’m danielle robey host of bookmarked the podcast

[00:05:25] by reese’s book club and this week on bookmarked we’re basically hosting the ultimate girls night

[00:05:30] reese witherspoon jennifer garner judy greer rita wilson and gauri rice and author laura dave

[00:05:36] these are the women behind season two of the apple tv series the last thing he told me

[00:05:41] we’re talking about turning a book into a hit show and what it really takes to bring a story to life

[00:05:47] the most important metric for me is do i want to share this book with somebody that’s what

[00:05:53] creates community and that’s the main theme of the book i’m going to share with you today

[00:05:55] of our book club and why we started it was just to connect people together listen to the bookmarked

[00:06:00] by reese’s book club podcast on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

[00:06:06] when you feel uncomfortable what do you put on biggie you put on biggie when you feel

[00:06:12] uncomfortable i want to get confident this is dj hester prince music is therapy a new podcast

[00:06:17] from me a dj and licensed therapist 12 months 12 areas of your life money love career

[00:06:25] confidence this isn’t just a podcast it’s unconventional therapy for your entire year

[00:06:30] listen to dj hester prince music is therapy on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you

[00:06:36] get your podcasts you know who else said good enough nope that’s a bad way to talk about the

[00:06:45] ferguson i was like you’re just you’re surely not doing that nope but we are starting with

[00:06:52] ferguson in this episode because it’s very relevant to jeffrey epstein’s

[00:06:55] intellectual journey because i’ve been talking about ah well obviously the fact that he got

[00:07:00] arrested and in trouble has an impact on him because a lot of his behavior seems to shift

[00:07:04] he gets more into right-wing stuff but that’s also happening to his whole community all these

[00:07:08] tech billionaires and rich finance guys are getting more pilled in the 2000s about this

[00:07:14] stuff anyway so maybe it would have happened if he hadn’t gotten convicted of anything

[00:07:17] but there’s a definite moment that i we can fairly easily say had a big impact on how jeffrey

[00:07:23] epstein thought about the world

[00:07:25] and it’s ferguson um on august 10th 2014 ferguson missouri police officer darren wilson shot michael

[00:07:33] brown and killed him there were protests immediately and some people used the opportunity

[00:07:38] of the protests to loot and engage in other criminal activity the police are included in

[00:07:43] the criminal activity that occurs after this shooting because their violence and the fact

[00:07:47] that they all looked like fucking soldiers kicked off further unrest and a national debate

[00:07:51] you all probably lived through pieces of this i’m not going to re-litigate

[00:07:55] everything that happened in ferguson but the basics of it are very relevant to the jeffrey

[00:08:00] epstein story because ferguson wasn’t just a tragedy in its own right it was a prelude to

[00:08:05] mass protests in the wake of george floyd’s murder in 2020 but it also helped to inspire the fascist

[00:08:10] backlash that first made itself obvious when mr donald trump announced his presidency on june 16th

[00:08:16] 2015 i don’t think it’s focused on enough how close ferguson is in time to trump announcing

[00:08:24] the start of his campaign

[00:08:25] and how many older white people with money see the videos from ferguson of the protests of these

[00:08:31] crowds of mostly black people who are very rightfully angry and get fucking terrified

[00:08:36] right because they see this as stirrings of the kind of race riots that they’ve never stopped

[00:08:41] fearing now we know that epstein began donating to far-right content creators and talking very

[00:08:46] openly about race science in 2015 and 2016 not long after ferguson and we know that he paid close

[00:08:55] attention to what was happening in ferguson from an early point and that he talked about his

[00:08:59] predictions for what might happen next with one of his good friends former israeli prime minister

[00:09:04] ehud barack no fucking way no fucking way it’s always and then he talked about it with his

[00:09:12] friend this influential monster that’s i’m just saying he’s the where’s waldo of bad guys he’s

[00:09:19] fucking everywhere he really fucking is now in ways that don’t even always make sense to

[00:09:25] it’s just like it feels like they’re the writers just cramming in modern villains man i guess he

[00:09:29] hasn’t shown up in the show for a while bring ehud barack in right yeah um how’d that friendship

[00:09:37] start do we know i you know i’m sure it’s there’s information about that one because he’s one of the

[00:09:43] guys we knew was an epstein friend way before the releases started right they’ve been very

[00:09:47] like publicly buddies um so what happens here is michael brown gets shot in ferguson and protests

[00:09:55] right yeah and jeffrey at some point probably pretty soon after that is talking with ehud barack

[00:10:01] and says here’s what i think is going to happen next right and like lays out a prediction for

[00:10:05] what’s going to happen to ferguson and we don’t know exactly what that prediction was or what he

[00:10:09] said but we do know that on november 24th a grand jury fails to indict wilson for killing michael

[00:10:15] brown more protests follow and some people respond to a man getting away with murder by rioting

[00:10:20] police cars are burned there’s a murder of a man in a parked car it’s really unclear i think

[00:10:25] who does that and why that happens but it’s a big deal right but what happens in ferguson in

[00:10:30] november of that year is like hugely influential all across the country on november 26th two days

[00:10:38] after the grand jury fails to indict wilson ehud barack sends this email to jeffrey epstein that

[00:10:44] you’re seeing on your screen right now jeff you’ve accurately predicted the eruption and together

[00:10:49] we’d predicted the mistakes which will follow let’s hope it won’t get worse re light and strong

[00:10:54] i’ll call you tomorrow morning

[00:10:55] your time best eb and then he’s linked there a cnn article called ferguson braces for more unrest

[00:11:01] right so i want to i want to really emphasize what’s happening here jeffrey is concerned

[00:11:08] enough about the potential of like race riots in the united states that he’s like looking for them

[00:11:14] so as soon as ferguson happens he is concerned and he reaches out to his friend who he thinks

[00:11:20] would be the best friend to talk to about his fear that a mind a racial minority

[00:11:25] between the right and left in his country is getting violent the former prime minister of israel

[00:11:31] there’s a lot a lot you can read into this conversation right boy howdy i hate them all

[00:11:40] so i think ferguson has a lot to do with why the next year epstein sends 25 000 to a white

[00:11:47] nationalist youtuber right i think it has a lot to do with a lot of shit that follows i think it

[00:11:52] a lot to do with why he starts reading fucking breitbart right now i have two more questions and

[00:11:55] talked in other episodes we’ve known for a while that epstein had a weird obsession with seeding

[00:12:00] his own dna into the human race in our previous episodes we talked about how he had discussed with

[00:12:05] his friends that he wanted to have a stud ranch where women would raise his babies and the babies

[00:12:10] of other genius men he talked about this both i want to have i need to have a lot of babies for

[00:12:14] the good of mankind and also obviously smart people should be the ones having but he’s a

[00:12:18] eugenicist right he’s talking this is elon musk shit he’s friends with elon musk you know disgusting

[00:12:23] but he’s interested in the same kind of stuff and absent other informations when i first covered

[00:12:29] this i chalked it up as more classic rich guy narcissism my immediate thing was like oh this

[00:12:34] guy wants a bunch of kids because he’s a narcissist and i didn’t really see oh no no this guy is also

[00:12:41] very specifically a white nationalist right yeah a budding white nationalist at the very least which

[00:12:47] epstein is by this point the releases have made this different picture very clear and i think it

[00:12:53] makes the

[00:12:53] most sense when you look at it through the prism of ferguson an article on futurism.com describes

[00:12:59] how jeff’s interests evolved after ferguson in 2016 epstein emailed german cognitive scientist

[00:13:05] and then mit professor joshua bach indicating that he was interested in the idea of genetically

[00:13:10] modifying black people to make them smarter the telegraph found bach had received a roughly

[00:13:15] four hundred thousand dollar donation from epstein those are tied like that’s tied to

[00:13:23] his interpretation of ferguson right and that’s not a small donation he’s just a freaking little

[00:13:30] race science nazi yeah yeah yeah he’s just a he’s just a race scientist yeah i mean but that’s that’s

[00:13:36] like conservatives right that is like the extent this is also the other way to look at it is this

[00:13:41] is cutting edge conservative thought and it has been for the last however many thousands of years

[00:13:46] this is as good as it gets for these people yeah yeah and you know it’s one of those things

[00:13:53] he’s afraid of black americans and this fear was heightened by ferguson but also just given his

[00:13:57] social life he’s social a lot with wealthy and influential and famous black people right so he’s

[00:14:04] not the kind of racist who can’t be friendly to some black people right he obviously can

[00:14:09] but his conversations with his fellow white intellectuals or at least he saw himself as

[00:14:13] intellectual made it clear that he saw successful and intelligent black people as outliers and when

[00:14:19] you really want to get into how racist jeff epstein is by 2006

[00:14:23] there’s no better place to go huh hate when you call him jeff jeffy there’s no better way to

[00:14:31] talk about how fucking racist jeffrey epstein has become by 2016 than to look at his emails

[00:14:36] with gnome chomsky oh gnome oh gnome on sunday february 7th 2016 jeff emailed gnome after

[00:14:47] apparently hanging out together so he had been hanging out with gnome and i guess gnome’s partner

[00:14:51] um that night because he said i don’t know i don’t know i don’t know i don’t know i don’t know

[00:14:53] thank you both for tonight and then he tells gnome chomsky that hey man if you want i can have my

[00:14:59] private jet the lolita express pick you up in boston and take you to my private island and

[00:15:03] return whenever you like right and gnome calls this invitation eight years after epstein had

[00:15:09] been exposed for child sex trafficking tempting now maybe he’s just blowing jeffrey off here

[00:15:14] um but epstein doesn’t read it that way epstein takes gnome chomsky’s response as an invitation

[00:15:21] to keep chatting this time

[00:15:23] about racism so he continues after inviting him to his sex island he says yeah on a different note

[00:15:29] you have encouraged me to look at data no holds barred mortgages inequalities opportunities i

[00:15:34] have seen some things through your eyes and for that i am grateful the test score gap amongst

[00:15:39] african americans is well documented 20 years of and then he spells testing testing many which

[00:15:45] might be said to like if you can’t spell the word testing right maybe your complaints about other

[00:15:51] people aren’t as smart as you are kind of bullshit

[00:15:53] but he continues many countries james watson who’s the racist guy who helped or arguably helped

[00:16:01] figure out the structure of dna and was also like a dna shit like black people aren’t as smart as

[00:16:07] white people guy like james watson big racist right um so epstein continues james watson had

[00:16:12] some of his private views made public and hence his dismissal from society he told me that after

[00:16:16] one sentence he became an unperson making things and he spells the word things wrong better might

[00:16:21] require accepting some uncomfortable facts and facts and i think that’s a good way to end the

[00:16:23] act you told me that so this is epstein broaching a conversation with chomsky hey you know you told

[00:16:30] me to look at the data well let’s convince me that racism’s right how do you think about that

[00:16:35] noam chomsky and does noam and i guess it’s no i’m like you’re yeah yeah brother no i i no noam

[00:16:42] pushes back i will say that okay right noam pushes back and he points out that like obviously

[00:16:47] outcomes for some a kid like me when i was a kid are going to be different from a kid that quote

[00:16:53] about of a group that for 400 years had a chance for about two or three decades to enter the

[00:16:57] mainstream society and then with a constant legacy of miserable racism he’s being like yeah of course

[00:17:02] test scores skills will be lower because like our society hurts these people their entire lives and

[00:17:07] that impacts test scores right that’s what chomsky’s saying right he says that epstein’s

[00:17:12] data has no scientific interest but he also says the greater issue is for later discussion

[00:17:17] which i find interesting chomsky knows this is bullshit he knows what his friend is saying is

[00:17:21] offensive and he says kind of that but then he gets more and more upset about it and then he

[00:17:23] he’s like, but we can talk about this later. You know, you want to keep talking? I’m always down

[00:17:27] to talk about race science with you, Jeffrey. Epstein, though, doesn’t take the hint and he

[00:17:31] keeps the conversation going. He admits that he’s aware of the potential for abuse with genetic

[00:17:36] engineering and eugenics. However, imagine that a set of genes could be used for working memory,

[00:17:42] like the ones for Tay-Sachs disease could be found and adjusted. Not looking seems cruel.

[00:17:47] And he’s bringing up the argument that anyone makes if you’re trying to convince a hostile

[00:17:50] source that you need to accept the initial tenets of eugenicist thinking. Well, look,

[00:17:55] obviously there’s problems with this. But look at this horrible disease that happens to kids

[00:17:59] when they’re in the womb. If you could knock that out, wouldn’t that be good? Right? Wouldn’t that

[00:18:03] be good? You got to ask. Do you hate kids? And like anyone’s going to say like, yeah,

[00:18:09] what if we could make kids who have their lungs born on the outside of their bodies,

[00:18:12] have their lungs on the inside of their bodies? Great. But then the conversation goes from there

[00:18:16] to like, what if we want to make sure that people aren’t born with a certain skin

[00:18:20] condition?

[00:18:20] Right? And one of the things that’s interesting to me is that like, if you are a eugenicist and

[00:18:31] you’re trying to like corrupt someone, right, and get them to agree with you, you’ll start the way

[00:18:35] that Jeffrey ends here, which is weird, right? You don’t start with, hey, I’ve been looking at

[00:18:40] the numbers and it looks like black people aren’t as smart as white people. That’s not how you start

[00:18:43] that conversation. And Epstein does. And then Chomsky smacks him down. And so Epstein pivots

[00:18:49] and he ends with a conversation.

[00:18:50] Normally starts where he’s like, well, what about these kids with taste ecstasy? Shouldn’t we be

[00:18:54] fixing that? Right? Yeah. Chomsky calls Jeff’s proposition almost inconceivable and then says,

[00:19:00] but if it could be done, I think there would be far more important uses like changing the genes

[00:19:04] for dedicated savagery and lack of concern for the welfare or even security of the population

[00:19:08] on the part of that sector of educated elites that reaches positions of power.

[00:19:13] And I’d love to appreciate that response more if he wasn’t sending it to his friend, Jeffrey Epstein,

[00:19:19] who he continues.

[00:19:20] to communicate with for years after his arrest for sexual trafficking.

[00:19:25] I mean, I, but I think the thing is in the frat house version of it, this is just like

[00:19:29] ribbing because, you know, this, oh, there that’s Jeff’s foible. He’s a fucking pedophile

[00:19:37] fascist. We can all joke about that. Yeah. Like it’s the chumminess that’s like,

[00:19:42] I mean, it’s the friendliness. It’s all revolting, I guess, but it’s the, you could,

[00:19:46] yeah, it’s the chomp, the fact that he’s so willing to continue this relationship.

[00:19:50] Right. Yeah. I mean, you could, I guess, if you wanted to feel good that Chomsky pushes back,

[00:19:55] but he keeps hanging out with Epstein repeatedly in person. They hang out in person a lot.

[00:20:03] Yeah. That’s fucked up. I mean, it’s, it’s also the, like, like not a real pushback if you’re

[00:20:10] like, it’s not a real stone. Yeah, no. And it’s what we see here. And what, what, one of the

[00:20:15] reasons why this is really interesting to me, not just to like shit on Noam Chomsky. I don’t

[00:20:18] really care about that one way or the other. What this is,

[00:20:20] evidence of is an active attempt by Epstein to influence Noam Chomsky, who is himself very

[00:20:26] influential on the American left to try and further mainstream scientific racism. That’s

[00:20:30] what he’s doing here. He is trying to get Chomsky to start going down the road he’s going down

[00:20:35] because he knows Chomsky can influence an even a large chunk of the country and maybe make them

[00:20:40] more amenable to scientific racism. That’s what he’s trying to do. Cause that’s how Jeffrey thinks

[00:20:44] about everyone who’s his quote unquote friend, right? He thinks about them in terms of what can

[00:20:48] I get out of them? And that’s how he’s thinking about it.

[00:20:50] There’s other stuff he gets from Chomsky, obviously, but this is one thing he’s trying

[00:20:55] to get and that he doesn’t seem to get out of him. It’s the same playbook. We saw Epstein

[00:20:59] deploy with Bobby Kotick, right? This is how he operates. What these new files reveal is that

[00:21:04] Jeffrey Epstein was an active and influential part of the reactionary wave often just called

[00:21:08] the alt-right that struck from 2015 to 2017 and brought us all the authoritarian bullshit we’re

[00:21:14] living with today. He’s a part of that and he’s trying to bring Chomsky into it, right?

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] A huge part. Well, Chomsky doesn’t. A huge part of the class that he’s a part of follows him down

[00:21:25] this road. And part of why they do is because Epstein works on them one by one to encourage

[00:21:30] them to think differently and to ask uncomfortable questions. He’s not the only one doing this,

[00:21:35] right? He’s not the leading one doing this. Part of why all of these Silicon Valley guys go fash

[00:21:41] is that a core of them start by saying like, well, is the brain trust in America is the only ones who

[00:21:49] are really intelligent.

[00:21:50] They really know what’s going on because of all the money we’ve made. It’s incumbent on us to ask

[00:21:54] uncomfortable questions and to consider things that less intelligent people might consider

[00:21:59] forbidden, you know? So let’s look into it, right? And that always just means racism. That’s the only

[00:22:05] thing that means, right? Yeah. Well, sometimes it’s a little bit of gender science and misogyny

[00:22:11] in there. And sometimes pedophilia. Yeah. You know, there’s other lines, Robert. Come on.

[00:22:17] There are. There are. And I can-

[00:22:19] I can remember as a kid, there was this big book called Disinfo that I read that was like,

[00:22:23] it was a bunch of essays about uncomfortable questions, challenging traditional logic and

[00:22:29] ethics, right? And I found parts of it very interesting. And then I got to an essay that

[00:22:33] was like, oh, this guy’s just arguing about fucking kids. Oh, that’s what this is about.

[00:22:38] This is a trick.

[00:22:39] Well, but it’s the same thing.

[00:22:41] I’ve been tricked.

[00:22:42] It’s why Ayn Rand is appealing when you’re like fucking 14.

[00:22:46] Right.

[00:22:46] Because you don’t know anything. But once you learn,

[00:22:49] something, most people at least pull themselves out of it.

[00:22:54] Yeah. Yeah. And it’s telling that they-

[00:22:55] Silicon Valley people do not.

[00:22:57] These fuckers talk all the time about uncomfortable questions and challenging

[00:23:00] orthodoxy. And not one of them will be like, hey, what if we just didn’t have billionaires

[00:23:04] and money? Like, what if we didn’t do that? What if you couldn’t like just throw a bunch

[00:23:09] of money into a thing and then own thousands of people’s livelihoods because you were born rich?

[00:23:13] What if that was not a thing we could do? Like, that’s not the dangerous questions. It’s all like,

[00:23:19] what if black people aren’t people? Like, that’s the dangerous question. Or what if

[00:23:23] 15-year-olds are fine to have sex with? Those are the dangerous questions

[00:23:26] that the intellectuals are always talking about when they say dangerous questions.

[00:23:32] And Jeffrey’s shift here, his interest in this shift, that’s what I’m trying to say. He is not

[00:23:37] novel. He has more influence than most. But a lot of these guys are thinking the same way.

[00:23:42] And he’s using his money to support and encourage them to continue this shift.

[00:23:46] And I want to tell a story that kind of,

[00:23:49] makes this point for me. And the story starts with a guy named John Brockman.

[00:23:53] Brockman is a major figure in the New York art scene starting in the 1960s. He is a peer of

[00:23:57] Andy Warhol, and he eventually becomes one of the most powerful literary agents in the city.

[00:24:02] His specialty is books about science and futurism. And he works with big name academics and thinkers,

[00:24:07] which means that he makes a lot of money. Brockman describes himself as a cultural impresario,

[00:24:13] right? Sure, man. Cool.

[00:24:17] Cool. Yeah.

[00:24:19] I already don’t like you, my guy.

[00:24:21] In 1996, he creates the Edge Foundation. This is an informal association of intellectuals who meet

[00:24:27] primarily online. And this is seen as a digital evolution from an older, similar group that met

[00:24:32] in person called the Reality Club. The Reality Club, we’re getting back in American intellectual

[00:24:38] tradition by a few decades here. But the Reality Club, per an article on their own website, I’m

[00:24:43] going to talk about like what this group was. Reality Club members presented their work with

[00:24:47] the understanding that they will be challenged.

[00:24:49] The hallmark of the Reality Club has been rigorous and sometimes impolite discourse.

[00:24:53] The motto of the club was inspired by the late artist-philosopher James Lee Byers.

[00:24:57] To arrive at the edge of the world’s knowledge, seek out the most complex and sophisticated minds,

[00:25:01] put them in a room together, and have them ask each other the questions they are asking themselves.

[00:25:06] And that’s a great idea. It’s a beautiful idea. We’ve hit the edge of the world’s knowledge. Let’s

[00:25:12] get the smartest people together to see if we can extend that edge. But what happens, James Lee Byers,

[00:25:18] his whole idea,

[00:25:19] J.E.S.

[00:25:20] Have you heard of the

[00:25:35] Rage Against Organism?

[00:25:35] Rage Against Organism is a free, exclusive, independent, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan, nonpartisan.

[00:25:35] Not only is it a great idea, but it’s a great idea that we should , like if you were an

[00:25:39] agnostic, you would say, all we want is bye-bye 하는데.

[00:25:41] Edoardo Garcia says that the quality of the movement, that is, is based on the truth.

[00:25:42] It’s also based on the message that if the people who vote are being persecuted for their

[00:25:42] own personal gain, then the people who vote need to be treated as a criminal, and the people

[00:25:43] who vote can be compared to the same relation, as a law and a law, and that it’s the same

[00:25:45] way.

[00:25:46] has ever existed in all of human history, self-proclaiming that you fit these attributes

[00:25:53] is pretty much the main reason you should not ever be part of a discussion like this.

[00:25:58] I think one of the things Einstein would have pointed out to these people is that if you have

[00:26:02] locked yourself out as being the absolute smartest in society and are isolating yourself from

[00:26:07] everybody else, it’s probably evidence that you’re not the smartest people in society.

[00:26:12] But Brockman really loves this idea.

[00:26:14] Yeah, dumb people always love this shit.

[00:26:19] Yeah, and I don’t know much about him other than that, but he considers these scientists

[00:26:23] and these other thinkers in the empirical space, the guys that Epstein is hanging out

[00:26:28] with, these philosophers and Bitcoin nerds and whatnot, he calls them the third culture.

[00:26:33] That’s his term for these people, right?

[00:26:35] Because they’re separate from the culture everyone else lives in because their minds

[00:26:39] are so far ahead of everyone else, right?

[00:26:41] Sure.

[00:26:41] Brockman is close with Jeffrey Epstein, and he considers him to be one of these

[00:26:44] third culture members who, through their unusual insight and brilliance, are making

[00:26:48] the future.

[00:26:49] Brockman is such an Epstein believer that he attends a dinner at Jeff’s mansion after

[00:26:54] he was released from prison.

[00:26:56] In The New Republic, Evgeny Morozov describes Brockman as the intellectual enabler of Epstein.

[00:27:02] Brockman bragged that the Edge Foundation, this salon of his, was redefining who and

[00:27:07] what we are, and he connected Epstein to important people because he wanted his friend Jeff to

[00:27:12] have a chance to change the world.

[00:27:14] Now.

[00:27:14] One of Brockman’s clients is Joy Ito of MIT, and in fact, Brockman may have been how Epstein

[00:27:20] and Ito met.

[00:27:21] He may have at least helped to encourage them to become friends.

[00:27:24] We know many other prominent intellectuals like Steven Pinker were first connected to

[00:27:29] Epstein by Brockman.

[00:27:30] So in a way, Brockman has been with us this whole story, helping to put up-and-coming

[00:27:34] technologists, thinkers, and researchers in a room with a pedophile sex trafficker.

[00:27:39] When all of this dropped, author Evgeny Morozov found himself shocked.

[00:27:43] His books were representative.

[00:27:44] He saw that he had a b nutrient, and he had the right to be a hero.

[00:27:48] Bracken and Epstein were both made for each other, and they both made their own and were

[00:27:49] not too far apart.

[00:27:50] He decided to look through his emails with Brockman to see, like, are there any signs

[00:27:51] that something bad was going on here?

[00:27:52] And he found an email from 2013 that really gives you an idea of how Brockman and Epstein

[00:27:59] baited the hook when they were trying to get these intellectuals interested in them.

[00:28:03] And I’m going to quote from Morozov’s article in The New Republic here.

[00:28:06] It was very laconic, J-E, FYI, JB, followed by my short bio and some media clippings.

[00:28:13] Strangely, it was sent to me and had been used in truthfully dangerous issues of the

[00:28:14] sent to me and had no other contacts in CC. Perhaps he wanted to send it to JE, but put my email there

[00:28:19] by mistake. When I commented on the meaning of this cryptic message, he responded with the following

[00:28:24] message, reproduced here in full. I missed that one. Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire scientist

[00:28:29] philanthropist, showed up at this weekend’s event by helicopter with his beautiful young assistant

[00:28:33] from Belarus. He’ll be in Cambridge in a couple of weeks and asked me who he should meet. You are

[00:28:38] one of the people I suggested, and I told him I would send some links. He’s the guy who gave

[00:28:42] Harvard $30 million to set up Martin Nowak. He’s been incredibly generous in funding projects of

[00:28:47] many of our friends and clients. He also got into trouble and spent a year in jail in Florida.

[00:28:53] Crazy way to say he’s a registered child sex offender. He also got into trouble and spent a

[00:29:01] year in jail in Florida. We’ve lost the plot, guys. Come on. Come on. It’s also like mentioning

[00:29:09] young assistant is like…

[00:29:12] His name.

[00:29:12] I mean, obviously, that’s how they would do it, but like, Jesus Christ. Like, what’s wrong with…

[00:29:18] I hate these people.

[00:29:19] If you wrote dialogue this heavy-handed, you would absolutely be run out of Hollywood.

[00:29:25] Absolutely. In a heartbeat.

[00:29:27] Or the good part of Hollywood.

[00:29:30] Yeah. Anyway, that’s all nuts. But Brockman suggests that if Epstein reached out to Morozov,

[00:29:36] it’s probably worth your time to respond to him, right? So he’s basically being like,

[00:29:41] and I don’t even know if this…

[00:29:42] Is intentional or not, if he’s like trying to… Whatever. He is sending Epstein information about

[00:29:49] this guy, and he’s telling Morozov, I know he’s a controversial figure, but you should meet with

[00:29:55] him. He’s really interesting, and obviously, he’s got a lot of money that he can put towards your

[00:29:59] work, right? And then after saying, it’s probably worth your time, Brockman tells this story about

[00:30:04] Epstein.

[00:30:05] Last time I visited his house, the largest private residence in New York City, I walked in to find

[00:30:10] him in a sweatsuit and a British guy in a suit with suspenders. I was like, I don’t know. I don’t

[00:30:12] even know the name of him. I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t even know the who. I don’t even know the

[00:30:15] Russian woman.

[00:30:16] After grilling me for a while about cyber security,

[00:30:18] the Brit named Andy was commenting on the

[00:30:20] Swedish authorities and the charges

[00:30:23] against Julian Assange.

[00:30:24] We think they’re liberal in Sweden, but it’s more like

[00:30:26] Northern England as opposed to Southern Europe, he said.

[00:30:29] In Monaco, Albert works 12 hours

[00:30:30] a day, but at 9pm when he goes out, he

[00:30:32] does whatever he wants, and nobody cares.

[00:30:34] But if I do it, I’m in big trouble.

[00:30:36] At that point, I realized the recipient of

[00:30:38] Irina’s foot massage was His Royal Highness

[00:30:40] Prince Andrew, the Duke of York.

[00:30:42] Now, Brockman is telling this story because he thinks it’s cool.

[00:30:48] He thinks it’ll convince Morozov he’s just got to meet Epstein.

[00:30:52] Whoa.

[00:30:53] I walked in on him in the largest residence in New York and he was getting he was clearly hanging out with two prostitutes and the fucking Prince Andrew, the Duke of York.

[00:31:02] That’s so I got to get in on that myself.

[00:31:05] You know, that’s what why Brockman tells this story.

[00:31:07] Right.

[00:31:08] I mean, I guess there is like a hindsight lens that like obviously we know.

[00:31:14] But yeah, I mean, I will.

[00:31:17] Yeah, there’s a high.

[00:31:18] Who knows what Brockman was entirely aware of?

[00:31:21] But I will say in terms of the people who knew this was fucked up at the time, Morozov gets this email and is like, absolutely not.

[00:31:29] I don’t want I don’t want any part of this shit.

[00:31:31] And he says that to Brockman.

[00:31:34] Fuck that stuff, man.

[00:31:36] That sounds weird.

[00:31:38] And then Brockman changes his attitude and is like, yeah, OK.

[00:31:42] So Morozov’s conclusion is that Brockman was acted basically as Epstein’s PR man.

[00:31:48] And he does this because he needs Epstein.

[00:31:51] Epstein is funding the whole Edge Foundation.

[00:31:54] Jeffrey’s assorted donations provided six hundred and thirty eight thousand of the eight hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars in funding the organization received from 2001 to 2017.

[00:32:04] Epstein was per BuzzFeed News by far.

[00:32:08] The largest donor.

[00:32:08] In fact, one could argue the Edge Foundation and all its billionaire dinners seem to have existed largely to connect Jeffrey Epstein to tech billionaires and public intellectuals.

[00:32:18] Right.

[00:32:18] Because one of the things they start doing in the aughts is Brockman starts putting together dinners with billionaires like that.

[00:32:24] They call it the billionaire dinners.

[00:32:26] And Epstein’s nearly always there.

[00:32:28] Right.

[00:32:29] Given the private nature of these events, we don’t fully know what he used his influence to do, but he wouldn’t have put more than six hundred thousand dollars into this foundation.

[00:32:37] Right.

[00:32:37] If it wasn’t worth it to him.

[00:32:40] One regular tradition was that Brockman would send out a list of questions for the members of the Edge Foundation to answer each year.

[00:32:46] Like, what is your dangerous idea?

[00:32:49] The answers would be published on their website, which the Guardian called the world’s smartest.

[00:32:53] So, again, everyone’s sucking these people off in the aughts.

[00:32:57] Brockman also used his influence to host annual billionaires dinners, as I mentioned, and Epstein was a common feature.

[00:33:03] This is how some major tech billionaires wind up connected to Epstein via email.

[00:33:07] Via Mandy Castigan’s article, quote,

[00:33:10] Email threads, which sometimes included Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, later turned into private conferences at Epstein and Brockman’s properties, as well as public events and debates.

[00:33:19] Brockman once bragged to Epstein that the net worth of the 40 guests at my 200 2014 billionaires dinner was equal to the combined wealth of 60 percent of all Americans.

[00:33:29] Yeah.

[00:33:30] Honestly, that seems lower than I thought.

[00:33:33] Yeah.

[00:33:33] Isn’t the dangerous idea that that’s bad?

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] I just like to think that they’re like, all right, guys, let’s let’s do an icebreaker so everybody gets to know each other.

[00:33:43] What’s your dangerous idea?

[00:33:46] Mm hmm.

[00:33:47] Yeah.

[00:33:47] My dangerous idea is that all of you should be fucking taken out by a drone strike.

[00:33:52] Like, one in that dinner would have saved the world some problems.

[00:33:56] My God.

[00:33:57] So juvenile.

[00:33:59] It’s so juvenile and dumb.

[00:34:01] What’s your dangerous idea?

[00:34:03] That’s like that’s like a bad fucking like Tinder message.

[00:34:06] Like.

[00:34:07] And again, fuck off all the billionaires at these billionaires dinners hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, emailing with Jeffrey Epstein, can see that he’s going to be there, can see that he’s in the email threads are talking to him sometimes on the email threads.

[00:34:20] And this is years after his arrest and his conviction.

[00:34:23] Right.

[00:34:23] My God.

[00:34:24] Most of Jeffrey’s donations to Edge start after his arrest.

[00:34:27] And he attends his first billionaires dinner in 2011.

[00:34:30] Right.

[00:34:31] But we know these these dinners go back further.

[00:34:34] And we know that in earlier years, like 2003.

[00:34:37] His close associate, Sarah Kellen, was one of the few women present at this dinner.

[00:34:41] To give a brief summary of what exactly Sarah’s role was in Epstein’s operation, here’s a paragraph from an article about her divorce from NASCAR star Brian Vickers.

[00:34:50] Court documents accused her of helping to arrange illegal massage sessions with underage girls.

[00:34:54] In 2022, a federal judge said she shared criminal responsibility while sentencing Gill and Maxwell.

[00:34:59] However, authorities never filed criminal charges against Kellen.

[00:35:03] Kellen, who worked with Jeffrey.

[00:35:05] Kellen, who worked with Jeffrey, connecting people to illegal massage sessions, is at the billionaires dinner in 2003 before Jeffrey, as far as we know, is even at these.

[00:35:15] Huh.

[00:35:17] Huh.

[00:35:19] Interesting.

[00:35:20] I mean, interesting.

[00:35:21] Yeah.

[00:35:22] I imagine some this is somewhat like the rhetorical path you’ve been leading us down.

[00:35:28] But it is like shocking how much pedophilia is like an integral part of this whole power.

[00:35:35] Structure, everything, these guys, intellectualism, like, it’s always that.

[00:35:42] It’s somehow always that.

[00:35:45] Once you get this kind of rich, the most painful and annoying thing in the world is anyone telling you you can’t do something.

[00:35:52] And I think that that has something to do with it.

[00:35:56] Some of these guys, I’m sure, would always have, you know, gone after underaged, you know, kids and stuff.

[00:36:02] But I do think some of it might just be like the sense of impunity.

[00:36:05] They have that, like, nothing should be illegal for me.

[00:36:08] Nothing should be beyond me.

[00:36:09] Right.

[00:36:10] I don’t know.

[00:36:10] And I don’t know who else.

[00:36:11] Maybe no one.

[00:36:12] Maybe Sarah didn’t connect anyone with illegal massages at the billionaires dinner.

[00:36:16] Maybe she was just a great conversationalist who happened to, as a judge said, be deeply complicit in Jeffrey Epstein’s illegal sex trafficking.

[00:36:24] Who knows?

[00:36:26] So that 2011 dinner Epstein attended featured Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin and Elon Musk, all of whom deny doing anything but briefly meeting Epstein at this event.

[00:36:35] This was not the only dinner he had with some of these folks, though.

[00:36:38] In August of 2015, billionaire Tom Pritzker, cousin of J.B. Pritzker, asked Epstein if he was available to hang out.

[00:36:45] Jeff replied, not sure yet.

[00:36:47] I had dinner with Zuckerberg, Musk, Thiel, Hoffman, Wild.

[00:36:51] And then he sends a photo of this event.

[00:36:53] And it looks so as shady as you’d guess.

[00:36:56] They’re at like a dark table.

[00:36:58] You can see Elon in one corner.

[00:37:00] Whoever took the photo is sitting right next to Mark fucking Zuckerberg.

[00:37:05] Like.

[00:37:05] It is just the shadiest looking dinner.

[00:37:08] But it’s also like a moron’s idea of what power looks like.

[00:37:12] It’s like writing the Dr. Evil set up.

[00:37:16] It’s the Dr. Evil set up.

[00:37:17] It really does.

[00:37:17] It does look like the Dr. Evil set up.

[00:37:20] And Mark Zuckerberg looks like he’s rethinking being there.

[00:37:23] Like maybe it’s just sitting across from Elon Musk is annoying as shit.

[00:37:27] I don’t know.

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:28] Oh, my God.

[00:37:30] Oh, man.

[00:37:31] The photo.

[00:37:31] That must have been Epstein taking it from right.

[00:37:34] Maybe.

[00:37:35] I don’t know.

[00:37:35] But he’s right.

[00:37:35] If so, then he was right next to Mark Zuckerberg.

[00:37:37] Is that Zuckerberg’s wife?

[00:37:40] I can’t tell.

[00:37:41] That may be Priscilla Chan right next to him.

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:44] I can’t tell.

[00:37:45] But I can’t.

[00:37:46] I can’t tell.

[00:37:47] I don’t know everyone in the photo, but you can.

[00:37:49] I mean, he says Bezos is there.

[00:37:51] You can see Elon Musk’s stupid face.

[00:37:52] And that’s definitely Musk and Zuckerberg.

[00:37:54] Right.

[00:37:57] Speaking of people who went to dinners with Elon Musk and Jeffrey Epstein.

[00:38:03] None of them support this podcast.

[00:38:05] Maybe.

[00:38:06] It’s impossible to say.

[00:38:08] Yeah.

[00:38:09] This is your least accurate ad throw I’ve heard.

[00:38:12] Yep.

[00:38:12] Yeah.

[00:38:15] Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast,

[00:38:19] where we talk about astrology, natal charts,

[00:38:22] and how to step into your most vibrant life.

[00:38:24] And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[00:38:26] The Irish traveler said when I was 16,

[00:38:29] you’re going to have a terrible time with men.

[00:38:31] Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic,

[00:38:35] Aquarian visionary.

[00:38:37] Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

[00:38:41] And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood.

[00:38:46] A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house

[00:38:49] spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[00:38:52] He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms,

[00:38:55] in different houses, in different places,

[00:38:57] but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.

[00:39:00] If you’re navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading

[00:39:05] artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life,

[00:39:09] this episode is a must listen.

[00:39:12] Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:39:17] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:39:20] Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[00:39:26] When segregation was the law, one mysterious Black club owner had his own rules.

[00:39:31] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:39:33] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:39:36] Inside Charlie’s place, Black and white people danced together.

[00:39:40] But not everyone was happy about it.

[00:39:43] You saw the KKK?

[00:39:45] Yeah, they were just dressed up in their uniform.

[00:39:48] The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

[00:39:53] Charlie was an example of power.

[00:39:58] They had to crush him.

[00:40:01] From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Visit Myrtle Beach

[00:40:04] comes Charlie Sparks.

[00:40:05] A story that was nearly lost to time.

[00:40:09] Until now.

[00:40:10] Listen to Charlie’s Place on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:40:13] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:40:19] This is Rider Strong with a podcast called The Red Weather.

[00:40:23] In 1995, my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune.

[00:40:27] It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

[00:40:31] So no, I am not your guru.

[00:40:34] I’m back.

[00:40:35] Back then, I lied to everybody.

[00:40:37] They have had this case for 30 years.

[00:40:40] I’m going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

[00:40:44] You can now binge all episodes of The Red Weather

[00:40:46] on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:40:50] Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[00:40:55] When segregation was the law,

[00:40:57] one mysterious Black club owner had his own rules.

[00:41:00] We didn’t worry about what went on outside.

[00:41:02] It was like stepping in another world.

[00:41:06] Inside Charlie’s Place, Black and white people danced together.

[00:41:10] But not everyone was happy about it.

[00:41:13] You saw the KKK?

[00:41:15] Yeah, they were just dressed up in their uniform.

[00:41:18] The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

[00:41:23] Charlie was an example of power.

[00:41:28] They had to crush him.

[00:41:30] From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Visit Myrtle Beach comes Charlie’s Place,

[00:41:35] a story that was nearly lost to time.

[00:41:38] Until now.

[00:41:40] Listen to Charlie’s Place on the iHeartRadio app,

[00:41:43] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:41:53] Ugh, and we’re back.

[00:41:56] So, the Edge Foundation is interesting to me

[00:42:00] because of what it is a precursor for.

[00:42:03] This is like the more exclusive,

[00:42:05] version for actual powerful people.

[00:42:09] But the basic idea that like,

[00:42:11] we’re going to ask hard questions and come up with the future

[00:42:14] is going to come like,

[00:42:16] that’s going to basically be the operating principle

[00:42:19] for another group of annoying rich guys

[00:42:22] who are going to come a few years later, right?

[00:42:25] In a write-up for the Trans News Network,

[00:42:27] Maddie Kastigan more accurately describes the Edge Foundation as,

[00:42:30] quote,

[00:42:30] a loose predecessor for the far-right intellectual dark web.

[00:42:34] And I think she’s right.

[00:42:35] You’re right on the money there, right?

[00:42:37] Or at least, I think it’s accurate to say

[00:42:39] the intellectual dark web is taking some of these ideas

[00:42:41] but being like,

[00:42:42] look, number one,

[00:42:43] billionaires don’t have time to write this bullshit.

[00:42:44] They’re not thinking up stuff.

[00:42:46] They’re living out on their yachts.

[00:42:48] They’re surfing.

[00:42:49] We got to find some guys who aren’t quite as rich

[00:42:51] who will start thinking dangerous ideas

[00:42:54] and writing about, you know,

[00:42:56] maybe we should be racist.

[00:42:58] Maybe it is okay to have sex with children, right?

[00:43:01] Like, we need our intellectual dark web

[00:43:04] to get that information.

[00:43:05] We need to get that information out to the plebs, right?

[00:43:08] So I think there’s some value

[00:43:09] in sort of looking at it that way, right?

[00:43:12] To continue from her article.

[00:43:13] It’s just a gang of people

[00:43:14] whose main, like,

[00:43:17] main skill

[00:43:19] is somehow convincing

[00:43:21] at least some number of people

[00:43:22] that the basic pervasive ideas

[00:43:25] of, like, your average KKK member

[00:43:26] is somehow interesting

[00:43:30] and, like, verboten

[00:43:31] and, like, worth exploring.

[00:43:34] It’s playing on

[00:43:35] one of the worst things

[00:43:36] about the American psyche,

[00:43:37] which is our, like, deeply ingrained

[00:43:39] sense of oppositional defiant disorder.

[00:43:41] Because if you just say,

[00:43:43] hey, you know the things

[00:43:43] that everyone else says are good?

[00:43:45] What if they’re bad?

[00:43:47] And then a bunch of people

[00:43:48] will give you money

[00:43:48] and let you write for The Atlantic.

[00:43:50] Yeah.

[00:43:52] The Atlantic,

[00:43:53] which is run by a friend of Jeffrey Epstein’s.

[00:43:56] Anyway, whatever.

[00:43:57] So is The New York Times.

[00:43:58] Whatever.

[00:43:59] Yeah.

[00:44:00] Yeah.

[00:44:01] So to continue from Mandy Castigan’s article

[00:44:04] for the Trans News Network,

[00:44:05] during the research for this article,

[00:44:07] Trans News Network uncovered

[00:44:09] at least eight prominent anti-trans figures

[00:44:11] affiliated with EDGE

[00:44:12] or with the IDW

[00:44:13] who received support from Epstein

[00:44:14] or even visited his island,

[00:44:16] often through connections with Brockman

[00:44:18] or physicist Lawrence Krauss.

[00:44:21] Now, it’s noteworthy

[00:44:22] that so many super smart EDGE people

[00:44:24] as well as the IDW folks

[00:44:25] picked hating trans people

[00:44:27] as their dangerous intellectual idea.

[00:44:29] One of the most noteworthy

[00:44:31] members of this crew

[00:44:33] is Epstein’s good friend,

[00:44:34] Lawrence,

[00:44:35] Krauss,

[00:44:35] as was stated in that quote above.

[00:44:37] Krauss is a famous physicist

[00:44:38] and right-wing crank

[00:44:39] who taught at Arizona State University

[00:44:41] where only the best scientists work.

[00:44:44] In 2006,

[00:44:45] he hosted a conference

[00:44:46] on Epstein’s island

[00:44:47] with Stephen Hawking.

[00:44:49] So that’s,

[00:44:49] he’s responsible

[00:44:50] for all the pictures of Hawking

[00:44:51] that we have to think about now,

[00:44:52] which don’t necessarily

[00:44:55] implicate Hawking.

[00:44:56] And again,

[00:44:56] Hawking may have just heard

[00:44:58] this is a science conference

[00:44:59] because all of these scientists

[00:45:00] are showing up at this island

[00:45:01] from this guy who donates to science.

[00:45:03] It’s 2006.

[00:45:04] Epstein hadn’t been arrested.

[00:45:05] That said,

[00:45:07] for a lot of these guys,

[00:45:08] there’s a follow-up conference in 2010,

[00:45:10] after which point

[00:45:11] they knew who Epstein was.

[00:45:14] Krauss is so close with Jeffrey

[00:45:17] that he becomes one of the first guys

[00:45:18] to face public consequences

[00:45:20] for his relationship with Epstein.

[00:45:22] In 2011,

[00:45:23] Rebecca Watson attacked him

[00:45:24] for continuing to associate with Epstein

[00:45:26] and justifying it by claiming science.

[00:45:29] Krauss defended his friend and said,

[00:45:31] I don’t feel lowered

[00:45:32] by my association with Jeffrey.

[00:45:34] I feel,

[00:45:35] I feel raised by my friendship with Jeffrey.

[00:45:37] And also,

[00:45:37] he never raped any kids.

[00:45:40] Yeah.

[00:45:41] Good call, Krauss.

[00:45:43] Just PR,

[00:45:44] just a PR gene.

[00:45:45] You know,

[00:45:46] I guess what else are you going to say?

[00:45:48] But yeah.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:51] And per that piece

[00:45:53] in the Trans News Network,

[00:45:54] Epstein clearly noticed Krauss’ vigorous defense

[00:45:56] and rewarded him for his loyalty.

[00:45:58] He pledged $100,000

[00:45:59] to Krauss’ project at ASU

[00:46:01] between 2014 and 2018.

[00:46:03] And Epstein’s billionaire,

[00:46:05] benefactor and alleged child rapist,

[00:46:07] Leon Black,

[00:46:08] subsequently pledged a whopping $2 million in 2015.

[00:46:11] Krauss claimed he raised a total of $4 million

[00:46:13] for the project in 2018,

[00:46:15] meaning that a large portion of his funding

[00:46:17] came from billionaires accused of child rape.

[00:46:19] And my only correction to that would be that,

[00:46:20] like, again,

[00:46:21] Epstein wasn’t really a billionaire.

[00:46:22] Not a billionaire.

[00:46:23] But this does go to show

[00:46:24] when I say that, like,

[00:46:25] you can’t just look at what Epstein gives.

[00:46:27] You have to look at, like,

[00:46:28] what Leon Black is giving

[00:46:29] because Epstein told him to, right?

[00:46:31] Yeah.

[00:46:31] It creates a, yeah,

[00:46:33] like a culture and some coverage.

[00:46:35] Like, fur and just, like, a crowd

[00:46:36] to hide yourself in.

[00:46:37] Sure.

[00:46:39] Now, Krauss more recently

[00:46:40] had to step down from Arizona State

[00:46:42] during the Me Too movement

[00:46:44] after he was accused six separate times

[00:46:46] of sexual misbehavior at work.

[00:46:48] I’m so shocked to hear that.

[00:46:49] Lawrence Krauss, everybody.

[00:46:51] Wow.

[00:46:52] That’s crazy.

[00:46:53] And after he gets in trouble,

[00:46:54] he becomes one of the first prominent men

[00:46:57] who were, you know,

[00:46:58] brought low by Me Too

[00:46:59] to reach out to Jeffrey Epstein

[00:47:01] for advice.

[00:47:03] We’ll talk a little bit more about that

[00:47:05] later.

[00:47:05] But Jeff goes so far,

[00:47:07] he’s not just giving Krauss advice,

[00:47:08] he’s helping him, like,

[00:47:09] craft his response,

[00:47:10] like the open letter that he writes

[00:47:12] about the allegations,

[00:47:14] which Krauss denied.

[00:47:15] But now we know

[00:47:16] because we have this information,

[00:47:17] Epstein was giving him, like,

[00:47:19] notes on it.

[00:47:20] Sure.

[00:47:20] Maddie Castigan continues,

[00:47:22] while he has long denied

[00:47:23] many of the allegations

[00:47:23] from his time at ASU,

[00:47:25] Krauss admitted to

[00:47:26] and even tried to justify

[00:47:27] gratuitous sexual comments

[00:47:28] about trans women he made

[00:47:29] around coworkers

[00:47:30] in one later removed section

[00:47:31] of his retirement letter.

[00:47:33] He also helpfully included

[00:47:34] a grade school sketchbook

[00:47:35] of a light bulb

[00:47:36] that he drew in front of colleagues.

[00:47:38] Since Krauss’s retirement

[00:47:39] from academia

[00:47:39] and hopefully sketch art,

[00:47:41] Epstein continued to advise

[00:47:42] and fund him

[00:47:42] as he pivoted to building

[00:47:44] an anti-trans podcast

[00:47:45] on his YouTube channel

[00:47:46] and accompanying Substack,

[00:47:47] where he’s interviewed

[00:47:48] a large number of TERFs

[00:47:49] and other anti-trans figures,

[00:47:50] including other Epstein associates

[00:47:51] like Richard Dawkins.

[00:47:53] And for a note,

[00:47:55] that light bulb sketch

[00:47:56] Jeff drew,

[00:47:56] I know this because of

[00:47:57] a fucking Dilbert book

[00:47:58] I read as a kid.

[00:47:59] If you, like, draw a light bulb

[00:48:00] in a certain way

[00:48:01] and turn it upside down,

[00:48:02] it looks like a woman

[00:48:03] who’s bending over

[00:48:04] with her underpants.

[00:48:05] Oh, sure.

[00:48:06] That’s what Krauss is doing.

[00:48:07] One of our greatest minds.

[00:48:08] Truly a master,

[00:48:10] master of physics.

[00:48:11] Oh, my God.

[00:48:12] Just a genius.

[00:48:13] All these men.

[00:48:14] Just the,

[00:48:15] that’s the,

[00:48:15] they are good at one thing,

[00:48:17] probably,

[00:48:18] or okay at one thing.

[00:48:19] Yeah.

[00:48:20] Is the problem.

[00:48:21] Most of them were.

[00:48:22] Or not.

[00:48:22] Is the problem, yeah.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:24] Just hate them all.

[00:48:26] I don’t know how good Krauss was,

[00:48:27] but yeah.

[00:48:28] So we’ve got Epstein

[00:48:29] funding a white nationalist YouTuber

[00:48:31] in 2015.

[00:48:32] And then in 2019,

[00:48:34] one of his last

[00:48:35] actions is helping

[00:48:35] to fund Krauss’s

[00:48:36] anti-trans propaganda.

[00:48:38] That’s interesting, right?

[00:48:40] And it gets worse.

[00:48:41] Epstein is also

[00:48:42] closely tied

[00:48:42] to an evolutionary biologist

[00:48:44] named Robert Trivers.

[00:48:46] Now, I had not heard

[00:48:47] of this guy,

[00:48:47] but Dr. Ev Nichols

[00:48:49] wrote a great piece on this

[00:48:50] for her website,

[00:48:51] Queer Science Lab.

[00:48:52] She started by just

[00:48:53] searching the Epstein files

[00:48:54] for the word transsexual, right?

[00:48:56] Now, today,

[00:48:57] that is widely,

[00:48:58] although I have known

[00:48:59] some trans people

[00:49:00] who still use that term

[00:49:01] for themselves,

[00:49:02] but it is an outdated

[00:49:03] and offensive term

[00:49:04] and it’s not

[00:49:05] as a general rule.

[00:49:06] That’s like,

[00:49:06] you’re not,

[00:49:07] you shouldn’t be using that

[00:49:08] referring to,

[00:49:08] if someone wants to take that,

[00:49:09] whatever,

[00:49:10] I’m not,

[00:49:11] not for me to speak about, right?

[00:49:12] But the reason why

[00:49:13] Dr. Nichols uses that term

[00:49:15] is because most of the men

[00:49:17] in the Epstein files

[00:49:18] are older men.

[00:49:19] They’re around Jeffrey’s age.

[00:49:20] And that term was,

[00:49:21] even if you weren’t

[00:49:22] trying to be offensive,

[00:49:23] the term you would have used

[00:49:24] 20 or 30 years ago, right?

[00:49:26] That’s why she’s searching for it

[00:49:27] because these guys

[00:49:27] use outdated terms for things.

[00:49:29] You know,

[00:49:29] I just needed to explain that.

[00:49:31] So she looks into

[00:49:32] Jeffrey and his friends

[00:49:34] talking about transsexuality

[00:49:35] and she points out something

[00:49:36] that gets left out a lot,

[00:49:37] including in my earlier

[00:49:38] coverage of Epstein,

[00:49:39] which is that,

[00:49:41] and I should have found

[00:49:42] this information,

[00:49:43] but I didn’t

[00:49:43] because it was out

[00:49:44] at this point in time.

[00:49:45] So I want to correct that now.

[00:49:46] The first woman

[00:49:47] to publicly accuse

[00:49:48] Jeffrey Epstein of abuse

[00:49:49] was a transgender Latina woman

[00:49:51] named Ava Cordero.

[00:49:52] She sued Epstein

[00:49:53] in October of 2007,

[00:49:56] claiming that he forced her

[00:49:57] into bizarre and unnatural sex

[00:49:59] when she was 16 years old.

[00:50:00] Per an article

[00:50:01] in LGBTQ Nation,

[00:50:03] quote,

[00:50:04] in her lawsuit,

[00:50:05] quote,

[00:50:05] Cordero alleged that

[00:50:06] in 1999,

[00:50:07] Epstein lured her

[00:50:08] to his mansion,

[00:50:09] undressed,

[00:50:09] and requested a massage.

[00:50:11] Cordero said she felt

[00:50:12] frightened but agreed,

[00:50:13] at which point Epstein

[00:50:13] suddenly began violently

[00:50:15] touching her genitals,

[00:50:16] pushing her head downward

[00:50:17] and demanding oral sex.

[00:50:18] She alleged Epstein

[00:50:19] had lured her

[00:50:20] to his mansion in 1999

[00:50:21] when she was 16, right?

[00:50:24] So again,

[00:50:25] I just really need

[00:50:26] to emphasize that, right?

[00:50:27] She agrees initially

[00:50:29] when he asks her to undress

[00:50:30] because she’s scared.

[00:50:32] And once he starts,

[00:50:33] he begins violently

[00:50:34] grabbing her genitals

[00:50:35] and then grabs her head

[00:50:35] and forces her

[00:50:36] to perform oral sex.

[00:50:37] It’s really bad.

[00:50:38] Like, this is a really

[00:50:39] terrible story.

[00:50:40] She was also a child.

[00:50:40] As bad as any

[00:50:42] of the tales of abuse

[00:50:43] that you’ll hear.

[00:50:44] But no one takes this seriously

[00:50:46] because Cordero

[00:50:47] is a trans woman

[00:50:48] and her life and I,

[00:50:49] well, trans child

[00:50:50] at the time of the abuse,

[00:50:51] but she’s 19 when she,

[00:50:52] anyway, whatever,

[00:50:53] or older than that

[00:50:54] when she makes,

[00:50:55] anyway, this is a trans woman

[00:50:56] and that makes assholes

[00:50:57] consider her

[00:50:58] an unsympathetic victim.

[00:50:59] The other thing,

[00:51:00] another thing that is used

[00:51:01] against her is that

[00:51:02] she’s HIV positive, right?

[00:51:03] She had admitted

[00:51:04] that she’d been admitted

[00:51:05] to a psychiatric hospital

[00:51:06] several times.

[00:51:07] She’s had mental health issues

[00:51:08] in the past

[00:51:08] and she’s admitted

[00:51:09] to illegal drug use

[00:51:10] in the past

[00:51:11] and all of this

[00:51:12] makes her a bad victim

[00:51:13] in the eyes of shitty people.

[00:51:15] I want to emphasize

[00:51:16] she is being judged here.

[00:51:19] Part of her credibility,

[00:51:20] why she’s judged

[00:51:21] is not credible

[00:51:21] is that she’s admitted

[00:51:23] to having used drugs

[00:51:24] in the past.

[00:51:25] Epstein is perfectly happy

[00:51:27] to use drugs.

[00:51:28] In fact,

[00:51:29] we have evidence of this.

[00:51:30] There’s a 2013 email exchange

[00:51:32] between him and his fixer,

[00:51:34] Leslie Groff,

[00:51:34] where Groff is arranging

[00:51:36] for a friend of,

[00:51:37] so Epstein has an apartment complex

[00:51:39] that he owns, right?

[00:51:40] And he lets people stay there.

[00:51:42] Sometimes they’re male friends of his.

[00:51:44] They can crash there.

[00:51:44] Sometimes he lets people live there.

[00:51:46] Usually very young women

[00:51:47] live there for periods of time, right?

[00:51:49] In 2013,

[00:51:51] one of these apartments,

[00:51:52] a woman lives there

[00:51:53] and she asks Leslie Groff,

[00:51:55] hey, my friend actor Will Forte

[00:51:57] is coming into town.

[00:51:58] Can he crash with me

[00:51:59] for a few nights

[00:52:00] in this apartment

[00:52:01] Jeffrey Epstein owns?

[00:52:02] Now, I don’t know

[00:52:04] the relationship

[00:52:04] between Jeffrey and this woman.

[00:52:06] I don’t know the age

[00:52:07] at which she starts

[00:52:08] talking to Jeffrey.

[00:52:09] I think she’s an adult

[00:52:09] at this point

[00:52:10] from everything that I know.

[00:52:11] So there’s a lot

[00:52:12] that I don’t understand here.

[00:52:14] But Epstein has this apartment

[00:52:15] that he sends women to

[00:52:17] and that he sends men to

[00:52:18] and that there’s some evidence

[00:52:20] he sends men to

[00:52:20] to have sex with young women,

[00:52:22] maybe young women

[00:52:23] that he’s giving

[00:52:24] a free apartment to.

[00:52:25] It’s a little bit unclear.

[00:52:27] That’s not what this is, right?

[00:52:28] Will Forte is not a friend

[00:52:29] of Jeffrey Epstein.

[00:52:30] When Epstein is asked

[00:52:31] if he can stay at the apartment,

[00:52:33] Epstein does not appear

[00:52:33] to know the guy, right?

[00:52:35] Now, would Will have been cool

[00:52:38] if he knew that he was staying

[00:52:38] in an apartment

[00:52:39] Jeffrey Epstein owned?

[00:52:41] I don’t know if he would have,

[00:52:42] but I don’t know if he knew, right?

[00:52:43] Does this woman

[00:52:44] tell her friend Will Forte,

[00:52:46] by the way,

[00:52:46] this apartment’s owned

[00:52:47] by Jeffrey Epstein, you know?

[00:52:49] This is one of those,

[00:52:50] because I’m bringing Will into it

[00:52:51] as a result of something else,

[00:52:52] I want to make it clear

[00:52:53] there’s not evidence

[00:52:54] he did anything wrong,

[00:52:56] although maybe it should be

[00:52:56] looked into a little bit, right?

[00:52:58] Yeah, who knows?

[00:53:00] Just to make sure.

[00:53:01] But there’s not evidence.

[00:53:02] I want to make that really clear.

[00:53:04] Anyway, the reason why

[00:53:05] this is relevant

[00:53:05] is because this woman asks,

[00:53:07] hey, can Will Forte crash with me?

[00:53:09] And Leslie asks Jeff,

[00:53:10] hey, is this okay?

[00:53:11] And Epstein responds,

[00:53:12] yes, but make sure

[00:53:13] there are no drugs

[00:53:14] or drink in the apartment,

[00:53:15] which means that there’s drugs

[00:53:16] there a lot of the time, right?

[00:53:18] Right.

[00:53:19] This isn’t the only evidence

[00:53:20] that Jeffrey Epstein used drugs

[00:53:22] or plied girls with drugs, right?

[00:53:24] It just makes it very clear.

[00:53:26] For what it’s worth,

[00:53:27] I guess that’s a point

[00:53:28] in Will Forte’s favor

[00:53:30] is he’s hiding.

[00:53:31] That he has, right,

[00:53:32] that Epstein wanted

[00:53:33] to hide stuff from him, right?

[00:53:35] So again, there’s not evidence

[00:53:36] Will did anything wrong.

[00:53:38] But this is relevant

[00:53:40] because when this case comes out

[00:53:43] and when she makes claims against him,

[00:53:45] there are like websites put up, right?

[00:53:49] Like social media sites

[00:53:50] claiming to be her social media sites

[00:53:53] where she talks about illegal drug use, right?

[00:53:57] The smear campaign.

[00:53:58] Now, she denies

[00:54:00] these are her social media accounts.

[00:54:03] And we know Epstein hired people

[00:54:06] to fix his Wikipedia for him.

[00:54:08] We know that he hired people

[00:54:09] to alter website

[00:54:11] and we know that he hired people

[00:54:13] to alter like Google results

[00:54:14] so that it wouldn’t be obvious

[00:54:15] that he was a sex criminal.

[00:54:17] They had somebody removing

[00:54:18] the fact that he was a convicted sex offender

[00:54:20] from his Wikipedia.

[00:54:21] He had people altering Google results.

[00:54:23] Wouldn’t have been weird

[00:54:24] for him to have someone make

[00:54:25] a fake social media page

[00:54:27] for this woman who has charged him,

[00:54:29] who has alleged that he abused her, right?

[00:54:31] And I just really wanted to emphasize

[00:54:33] how vile this is,

[00:54:35] really comprehensively.

[00:54:37] Disgusting.

[00:54:37] Her case is dismissed

[00:54:39] because it fell outside

[00:54:40] of the statute of limitation.

[00:54:42] She waited more than five years.

[00:54:45] And the fact that this all happens

[00:54:48] and that it’s not,

[00:54:51] not only is this dismissed,

[00:54:52] which maybe they didn’t have a choice legally.

[00:54:54] I’m not enough of a law expert

[00:54:55] to say if this is a good ruling or not,

[00:54:57] you know,

[00:54:58] but statutes of limitation exist.

[00:55:01] I mean, good.

[00:55:02] And is it illegally?

[00:55:03] Consistent ruling

[00:55:04] that they would have applied to anybody.

[00:55:06] But what you do know here

[00:55:08] is that the media treats this like a joke.

[00:55:11] These are serious allegations

[00:55:13] that Jeffrey Epstein raped a child

[00:55:15] that come out the year before

[00:55:17] he gets charged with molesting a child

[00:55:20] and convicted.

[00:55:21] And it is not,

[00:55:22] it is treated like a joke forever

[00:55:24] up to the present day.

[00:55:25] And per an article in LGBTQ Nation,

[00:55:28] the New York Post’s October 23rd, 2007 coverage

[00:55:31] included the headline,

[00:55:32] gender bend shocker,

[00:55:34] kinky sex suit gal is a man.

[00:55:36] Like,

[00:55:37] this is a rape allegation by a child

[00:55:40] or someone who was a child at the time, right?

[00:55:43] It’s just, it’s, it’s vile.

[00:55:46] It’s just like so comprehensively evil.

[00:55:49] Anyway, this is Epstein’s first recorded interaction

[00:55:52] with a trans person.

[00:55:53] But from this point forward,

[00:55:55] so there’s obviously a period

[00:55:56] at which he fetishizes trans people, right?

[00:55:59] And that’s deeply tied in

[00:56:01] with his anti-trans,

[00:56:02] anti-trans activism

[00:56:03] because that becomes an increasing thing

[00:56:05] to him in the aughts.

[00:56:06] And one person he expresses a lot of this to

[00:56:08] is evolutionary biologist, Robert Trivers.

[00:56:11] Now, Trivers was famous for back in the 70s

[00:56:14] creating what’s called

[00:56:15] the theory of investment parenting.

[00:56:17] And this theory suggests

[00:56:18] that parents invest in their kids

[00:56:20] to ensure their own multi-generational success.

[00:56:23] Thus, it’s natural for women

[00:56:25] to invest more in parenting

[00:56:26] because they invest more to create the child.

[00:56:29] And it’s natural for men

[00:56:30] to invest less in parenting

[00:56:32] because they’re not going to be able to do that.

[00:56:32] And so, you know,

[00:56:32] it’s natural for men to invest less in parenting

[00:56:32] because they’re not going to be able to do that.

[00:56:32] Because it’s easy to come, right?

[00:56:33] That’s what Nichols is saying.

[00:56:35] And that this is fine and right and good.

[00:56:38] This theory has been discredited.

[00:56:40] But as Dr. Nichols noted in her article,

[00:56:42] it is still widely cited.

[00:56:44] Travers started corresponding with Epstein in 2009,

[00:56:48] again after Epstein’s guilty plea.

[00:56:50] Per Nichols, quote,

[00:56:51] Epstein invited Trivers to his house in Florida

[00:56:53] to discuss his work

[00:56:54] and paid Trivers’ travel and accommodations.

[00:56:57] Trivers, like all researchers, needed money.

[00:56:59] Research is expensive.

[00:57:00] Salaries, materials, publishing fees, and more.

[00:57:02] Over the years,

[00:57:03] Trivers frequented Epstein’s Florida home.

[00:57:06] Trivers is unsure how or when

[00:57:07] Epstein began funding his work.

[00:57:09] But by 2015,

[00:57:10] Epstein bragged to Noam Chomsky

[00:57:11] that he was Trivers’ major funder.

[00:57:14] Concurrently,

[00:57:14] Trivers publicly justified Epstein’s pedophilia

[00:57:17] in no uncertain terms.

[00:57:18] And she chooses not to reproduce

[00:57:21] that justification here.

[00:57:23] I think I will reproduce them

[00:57:25] because it’s important for knowing

[00:57:26] what a piece of shit Trivers is.

[00:57:28] In a 2015 Reuters article,

[00:57:30] after a lot more stuff,

[00:57:32] about Epstein started coming out,

[00:57:34] several scientists who had received donations

[00:57:36] from the Epstein Foundation

[00:57:37] were asked why they kept taking his money

[00:57:39] and associating with him after his conviction.

[00:57:42] Krauss said,

[00:57:43] I’d be a coward if I abandoned Jeffrey

[00:57:45] over allegations I know nothing about.

[00:57:47] And that’s gross.

[00:57:48] But what Trivers says in this article

[00:57:50] is so much worse.

[00:57:51] I can’t believe he said this to Reuters.

[00:57:54] Did he get an easy deal?

[00:57:55] Did he buy himself a light sentence?

[00:57:57] Well, yes, probably,

[00:57:58] compared to what you or I would get.

[00:57:59] But he did get locked up,

[00:58:01] Trivers said.

[00:58:02] Trivers said,

[00:58:02] he also said he believes

[00:58:03] girls mature earlier than in the past.

[00:58:06] By the time they’re 14 or 15,

[00:58:07] they’re like grown women were 60 years ago.

[00:58:09] So I don’t see these acts as so heinous.

[00:58:12] Yeah.

[00:58:12] Is this guy just like walking around still?

[00:58:16] Probably.

[00:58:17] I hope he’s dead,

[00:58:18] but I think he probably is.

[00:58:19] Well, it’s also just like,

[00:58:21] like that like branch of like bigot science

[00:58:24] is like you just like find the trappings

[00:58:27] of evolutionary like psychology

[00:58:30] to like justify what you are,

[00:58:32] already want to,

[00:58:33] you know,

[00:58:33] you can sort of backfill anything if you want.

[00:58:36] Yeah.

[00:58:37] And you will get money.

[00:58:39] It’s rewarding to be a bigot.

[00:58:41] It’s cool like that.

[00:58:42] To be a fucking racist pedophile,

[00:58:44] whatever.

[00:58:46] So that next year in 2016,

[00:58:48] Trivers thanked Epstein for sending him extra money

[00:58:51] and making him an advisor on the Epstein Foundation.

[00:58:53] Oh, that guy’s still alive.

[00:58:54] Oh, yeah.

[00:58:55] Good.

[00:58:56] He talked about his medical research

[00:58:58] and added that he was moving forward

[00:59:00] on theoretical work Epstein had asked him

[00:59:02] to do.

[00:59:02] We don’t know what that was specifically,

[00:59:05] but Epstein’s response to this was,

[00:59:07] I want to see you,

[00:59:08] your piece on transgender in the bio world.

[00:59:11] Right.

[00:59:12] So that suggests he wanted Travers

[00:59:15] to write a piece about transgender people

[00:59:18] and actual and like biology,

[00:59:20] like his,

[00:59:20] this is like a bio essentialist thing,

[00:59:22] right?

[00:59:23] That’s what he wants Dr. Travers to write.

[00:59:25] And that’s kind of his,

[00:59:26] his,

[00:59:27] his priority,

[00:59:28] right?

[00:59:29] Is getting this guy to write about trans people

[00:59:31] rather than any of the other research things.

[00:59:32] That he’s doing.

[00:59:33] Dr. Nichols continues.

[00:59:35] Two months later,

[00:59:36] Travers contacted Epstein again

[00:59:37] and communicated that he is getting

[00:59:39] to the end of transsexuality.

[00:59:41] Travers goes on to pontificate

[00:59:42] about the benefits of fucking trans women

[00:59:44] using dehumanizing language

[00:59:45] to refer to trans femmes like organism

[00:59:47] and the new morphs.

[00:59:50] To that end,

[00:59:50] Travers asks Epstein for more money

[00:59:52] to finish his research on the proposed topics.

[00:59:56] So,

[00:59:56] but first off,

[00:59:57] Travers,

[00:59:58] if you read his actual emails,

[00:59:59] he is a fetishist.

[01:00:00] He fetishizes trans people

[01:00:01] and he,

[01:00:02] he also does not consider them

[01:00:04] number one

[01:00:05] to be

[01:00:06] the gender

[01:00:07] that they are,

[01:00:08] right?

[01:00:09] Yeah.

[01:00:09] He’s a biological essentialist,

[01:00:11] but he also,

[01:00:12] and I think this is the same with Epstein,

[01:00:14] they’re happy to fetishize these people.

[01:00:16] When these people

[01:00:16] have an identity

[01:00:18] and are trying to get like

[01:00:19] treated as human beings,

[01:00:20] that makes him incredibly angry

[01:00:22] because they only exist

[01:00:23] for his sexual gratification.

[01:00:25] I think that’s a big thing

[01:00:26] for both Epstein and Travers here

[01:00:27] and why they’re both

[01:00:28] on the anti-trans stuff,

[01:00:29] right?

[01:00:30] Is they’re personally offended

[01:00:31] at the,

[01:00:32] the,

[01:00:33] the struggle for like

[01:00:34] dignity and civil rights

[01:00:36] by trans people

[01:00:37] as a community

[01:00:38] because to them,

[01:00:39] they’re not a community.

[01:00:40] They’re a fetish, right?

[01:00:40] That’s,

[01:00:41] that’s I think what’s going on here.

[01:00:42] That’s my interpretation

[01:00:43] based on my reading.

[01:00:45] In October of that year,

[01:00:48] 2016,

[01:00:49] Travers held a talk in London

[01:00:51] titled

[01:00:51] An Evening on Evolutionary Biology,

[01:00:54] an overview covering feminism,

[01:00:55] transgender,

[01:00:56] homosexuality,

[01:00:57] and honor killings.

[01:00:58] He invited Epstein to the talk

[01:01:00] and in an email

[01:01:01] where he laid out

[01:01:02] the details of the event wrote,

[01:01:04] um,

[01:01:04] or sorry,

[01:01:05] wrote the title.

[01:01:06] So as far back as 2016,

[01:01:08] Epstein is trying

[01:01:09] and giving his money

[01:01:11] to support the creation

[01:01:13] of an internet wave

[01:01:14] of coverage

[01:01:15] critical to trans identity

[01:01:17] because Epstein’s response

[01:01:18] is that basically

[01:01:19] I think this will do a good job

[01:01:21] of getting in the news.

[01:01:22] Like,

[01:01:22] great work on the conference.

[01:01:24] Hopefully people write about it.

[01:01:25] You know?

[01:01:26] You’re right.

[01:01:26] Like he’s really trying

[01:01:27] to get intellectuals

[01:01:29] to put out critical stuff

[01:01:30] about trans people

[01:01:31] that he,

[01:01:32] he can then get to go viral.

[01:01:33] And he talks about this directly

[01:01:34] in his emails with Trivers.

[01:01:36] In 2018,

[01:01:38] Epstein and Trivers

[01:01:39] again communicate

[01:01:39] about trans theories.

[01:01:41] Uh,

[01:01:41] Trivers uses more

[01:01:43] really bad language.

[01:01:45] Um,

[01:01:45] he calls trans people

[01:01:46] novel phenotypes.

[01:01:48] Um,

[01:01:48] and then he describes,

[01:01:50] uh,

[01:01:50] an experiment

[01:01:51] that he wants to do

[01:01:52] to kind of test

[01:01:53] some of his theories.

[01:01:54] Um,

[01:01:54] which,

[01:01:55] and this is how

[01:01:56] Dr. Nichols describes it.

[01:01:58] Um,

[01:01:59] he reiterates his attraction

[01:02:00] to trans women

[01:02:01] and explicitly erases

[01:02:02] trans women’s

[01:02:02] all while using

[01:02:03] his porn algorithms

[01:02:04] as evidence.

[01:02:05] Trivers ends the email

[01:02:06] by claiming that

[01:02:07] trans three-year-olds

[01:02:08] are receiving hormone treatments,

[01:02:09] a false anti-trans scaremonger.

[01:02:11] So again,

[01:02:12] this,

[01:02:12] this mix of fetishization

[01:02:14] and scaremongering

[01:02:15] is really interesting.

[01:02:16] These people are disgusting.

[01:02:19] I,

[01:02:19] I don’t want to include

[01:02:20] too much of the text

[01:02:21] of these emails.

[01:02:22] They’re gross enough

[01:02:23] that I don’t really want

[01:02:24] to read them in detail.

[01:02:25] But as Nichols notes,

[01:02:27] Epstein funds

[01:02:28] his anti-trans work

[01:02:29] over his other research,

[01:02:31] which is often

[01:02:32] also racist.

[01:02:33] For example,

[01:02:34] Trivers wanted to find

[01:02:35] an evolutionary reason

[01:02:36] for why basically

[01:02:37] black people do

[01:02:38] honor killings

[01:02:38] and Middle Eastern,

[01:02:39] like Arab people

[01:02:40] do honor killings.

[01:02:41] When the reality is that like

[01:02:43] honor killings are everywhere.

[01:02:44] If a man gets angry

[01:02:46] that his wife

[01:02:47] slept with someone else

[01:02:48] or doesn’t respect him enough

[01:02:50] and murders her,

[01:02:50] which happens all of the time

[01:02:51] in the US,

[01:02:52] that right there

[01:02:52] is an honor killing,

[01:02:53] my friend.

[01:02:54] He’s angry

[01:02:55] because a woman

[01:02:55] made him embarrassed

[01:02:56] and he murdered her.

[01:02:58] Yeah.

[01:02:59] Anyway,

[01:03:00] what’s interesting though

[01:03:01] is that,

[01:03:02] above all this stuff,

[01:03:03] above even the racial stuff,

[01:03:04] Epstein wants Trivers

[01:03:05] writing anti-trans propaganda.

[01:03:08] Here’s a March 2019 email

[01:03:10] where Epstein lays out directly

[01:03:11] that he considers

[01:03:12] the anti-trans stuff

[01:03:13] Trivers’ main priority.

[01:03:15] I can call you today

[01:03:16] if you like.

[01:03:16] My recollection

[01:03:17] is that we sat together.

[01:03:18] I thought that you might

[01:03:19] want to focus

[01:03:19] on transgender biology.

[01:03:21] People would be interested

[01:03:22] and I would fund.

[01:03:23] I am a true believer

[01:03:24] in your talents.

[01:03:26] Yeah.

[01:03:26] Right?

[01:03:27] I mean,

[01:03:28] you know,

[01:03:28] to the extent that

[01:03:29] Epstein had a talent,

[01:03:30] it was like this,

[01:03:32] like,

[01:03:32] even if it’s not like

[01:03:34] people will be interested,

[01:03:35] it’s that like,

[01:03:36] the fucking like

[01:03:38] power brokers

[01:03:39] and information people

[01:03:40] down to like

[01:03:41] the New York Times

[01:03:41] and like,

[01:03:42] you know,

[01:03:42] quote unquote liberals

[01:03:43] or whatever

[01:03:44] will also buy this shit

[01:03:45] hook, line, and sinker.

[01:03:47] Yeah.

[01:03:48] Or at least buy the debate,

[01:03:49] perpetuate the debate.

[01:03:50] That’s right.

[01:03:51] And it’s the debate

[01:03:52] he wants to push out there first,

[01:03:53] right?

[01:03:53] Because it starts with the debate.

[01:03:55] It starts with,

[01:03:56] okay,

[01:03:56] let’s have him have this talk

[01:03:57] and then see if we can get

[01:03:58] the Guardian or whoever

[01:03:59] to report on the fact

[01:04:00] that this biologist

[01:04:01] is talking about,

[01:04:02] you know,

[01:04:02] this is what he said

[01:04:03] about trans people.

[01:04:04] People are starting

[01:04:04] to question,

[01:04:05] you know,

[01:04:06] some of these things

[01:04:06] that the community

[01:04:07] is putting out, right?

[01:04:08] That’s,

[01:04:08] he’s very specific about like,

[01:04:10] I want this to go viral.

[01:04:12] I want this to get news coverage,

[01:04:13] right?

[01:04:14] He expresses,

[01:04:15] and when he says

[01:04:16] in that last email

[01:04:17] that people will be interested

[01:04:18] about your anti-trans research,

[01:04:20] he’s expressing confidence

[01:04:21] that he can brute force

[01:04:23] the public to care

[01:04:24] about Trivers’ research,

[01:04:25] right?

[01:04:26] That’s what he’s talking about

[01:04:27] is forcing anti-trans

[01:04:28] talking points

[01:04:29] into the public sphere.

[01:04:31] I could go

[01:04:32] on about the other people

[01:04:33] that may have had

[01:04:34] played a role in this.

[01:04:36] Epstein is very close

[01:04:37] to the Sulzberger family

[01:04:38] who own the New York Times,

[01:04:40] who publish a lot

[01:04:41] of anti-trans bullshit.

[01:04:43] Epstein knew them

[01:04:43] as far back as the 70s.

[01:04:45] In one email chain,

[01:04:46] he jokes with Michael Wolff

[01:04:47] about the fact

[01:04:48] that former publisher

[01:04:49] Arthur Sulzberger

[01:04:50] had a sex scandal

[01:04:51] that could have ruined him

[01:04:52] before he retired.

[01:04:54] Sulzberger’s son

[01:04:55] now runs the New York Times.

[01:04:57] And, you know,

[01:04:58] obviously I’m not saying

[01:04:59] that Epstein convinced

[01:05:01] the New York Times

[01:05:01] to do that.

[01:05:02] to run a bunch

[01:05:02] of anti-trans propaganda.

[01:05:03] But it’s interesting

[01:05:04] that Epstein is really

[01:05:05] pushing that

[01:05:06] and is friends

[01:05:06] with the people

[01:05:07] behind the Times

[01:05:08] and the Atlantic.

[01:05:09] But that is also the thing.

[01:05:10] It’s like,

[01:05:11] he doesn’t have to.

[01:05:13] That is sort of like

[01:05:15] both the useful idiocy

[01:05:16] of places like

[01:05:17] the New York Times

[01:05:18] and the Atlantic

[01:05:18] and, like,

[01:05:20] just that, I guess,

[01:05:21] class of people,

[01:05:23] which is like,

[01:05:23] he doesn’t have to dictate

[01:05:25] how you should do this.

[01:05:26] He knows

[01:05:27] that they are primed

[01:05:28] to support these ideas

[01:05:29] or, again,

[01:05:30] support the debate.

[01:05:31] And this class of people,

[01:05:33] which includes

[01:05:33] basically everyone

[01:05:34] who’s ever written

[01:05:35] a pop science book

[01:05:36] that’s been successful

[01:05:37] and includes

[01:05:39] a number of actual scientists,

[01:05:42] most of the billionaires,

[01:05:43] and a whole lot

[01:05:45] of, like,

[01:05:46] hereditary

[01:05:47] newspaper people, right?

[01:05:49] People who get jobs

[01:05:50] at the Times

[01:05:50] or the Atlantic

[01:05:51] or the New Yorker

[01:05:51] because of who their dad

[01:05:52] or mom was, right?

[01:05:53] A lot of these,

[01:05:54] all these people

[01:05:55] are desperate for money

[01:05:56] from rich assholes

[01:05:58] like Jeffrey Epstein

[01:05:59] and are willing

[01:06:00] to do things

[01:06:01] like, especially

[01:06:02] the writers

[01:06:03] and the academics

[01:06:04] to kind of say anything

[01:06:05] if there’s money in it.

[01:06:07] They,

[01:06:07] all of these fucking guys,

[01:06:08] like the,

[01:06:09] the,

[01:06:09] the fucking

[01:06:11] Barry Weiss crew

[01:06:12] or whatever,

[01:06:13] talk about how they’re like

[01:06:14] truth tellers

[01:06:15] and this is the same

[01:06:16] as like the,

[01:06:17] honestly,

[01:06:17] the New York Times

[01:06:18] editorial board

[01:06:18] talk about how they care

[01:06:20] about the truth

[01:06:20] and getting information

[01:06:21] to people.

[01:06:22] They give a shit about money

[01:06:23] and having rich friends

[01:06:24] and access, right?

[01:06:26] And they’re so desperate

[01:06:27] for it

[01:06:27] that the instant

[01:06:28] someone like Jeffrey Epstein

[01:06:29] starts saying,

[01:06:30] you know what I found

[01:06:31] about trans people,

[01:06:32] they’ll start greenlighting articles

[01:06:33] because that’s what

[01:06:34] the public wants to hear.

[01:06:35] You know?

[01:06:36] It’s so,

[01:06:36] it’s shocking

[01:06:37] that the truth tellers

[01:06:39] just all in their

[01:06:40] like vast search for truth

[01:06:42] just happen to coalesce

[01:06:44] around the opinions

[01:06:45] of the right wing

[01:06:46] power structure.

[01:06:47] That is a coincidence.

[01:06:49] It’s interesting also

[01:06:50] that like the most dangerous

[01:06:51] thing to suggest

[01:06:52] isn’t maybe all these

[01:06:53] assholes with all of the money

[01:06:55] shouldn’t have it.

[01:06:55] It’s maybe these people

[01:06:57] with no money at all

[01:06:58] are bad and dangerous.

[01:06:59] Yeah.

[01:06:59] Yeah.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:00] Maybe the poorest

[01:07:01] and most depressed group

[01:07:02] of people

[01:07:03] that I could think of

[01:07:04] pretty much here

[01:07:04] are, yeah,

[01:07:06] secretly in charge.

[01:07:09] Intellectual kings

[01:07:10] and queen.

[01:07:11] It’s good stuff.

[01:07:13] Yeah.

[01:07:14] Ultimately,

[01:07:15] the result of Epstein’s

[01:07:16] investment in Trivers

[01:07:16] didn’t reach fruition

[01:07:17] until two months

[01:07:18] before his death.

[01:07:20] In 2020,

[01:07:20] Trivers published

[01:07:21] his universal theory

[01:07:22] of gender identity,

[01:07:23] which argued that the ratio

[01:07:24] of one’s digit lengths

[01:07:26] like fingers

[01:07:27] revealed how much testosterone

[01:07:28] they’d received

[01:07:29] as a fetus

[01:07:30] and thus predicted

[01:07:30] gender identity

[01:07:31] and then thus proved

[01:07:33] gender absolutism,

[01:07:34] basically.

[01:07:35] And he basically said

[01:07:37] that, like,

[01:07:37] by the way someone’s fingers look,

[01:07:39] I can tell you

[01:07:39] if they’re transgender.

[01:07:41] This is wrong.

[01:07:42] His work has been disproven,

[01:07:43] but it’s cited regularly,

[01:07:45] including in a 2022 paper

[01:07:46] from an anti-trans group

[01:07:47] called Sex Matters.

[01:07:49] Per Dr. Nichols,

[01:07:49] the group cites digit ratios

[01:07:51] in denying the autonomy

[01:07:53] of trans adolescents.

[01:07:54] And this next bit

[01:07:55] that she writes

[01:07:56] is very important.

[01:07:57] To recap,

[01:07:58] Epstein funds

[01:07:59] Trivers’ research

[01:08:00] and suggests specific

[01:08:01] topics of study.

[01:08:02] Trivers becomes obsessed

[01:08:03] with trans women

[01:08:04] as sexual objects

[01:08:05] and seeks a universal

[01:08:06] biological explanation

[01:08:07] of gender identity.

[01:08:08] He asks for more money

[01:08:09] and publishes his findings.

[01:08:11] Ultimately,

[01:08:11] Trivers’ theory

[01:08:12] is easily falsifiable.

[01:08:14] Despite this,

[01:08:15] hate groups pick up

[01:08:15] on the pseudoscience

[01:08:16] and use it as a justification

[01:08:17] for their regressive policies.

[01:08:19] Yeah.

[01:08:20] And that is,

[01:08:20] in a nutshell,

[01:08:21] the Jeffrey Epstein story.

[01:08:23] It is telling

[01:08:24] that, like,

[01:08:25] the best,

[01:08:26] most funded,

[01:08:27] absolutely cutting edge

[01:08:29] of right-wing thought

[01:08:30] is basically the same

[01:08:31] as on the playground

[01:08:32] when they said,

[01:08:33] if your hand is bigger

[01:08:34] than your face,

[01:08:34] you’re X-predicted.

[01:08:37] Yeah.

[01:08:37] Whatever offensive,

[01:08:38] horrible thing follows.

[01:08:40] Like,

[01:08:40] that is literally

[01:08:41] the best these people can do.

[01:08:43] And there it is.

[01:08:45] Yeah.

[01:08:46] I, uh,

[01:08:47] let’s,

[01:08:48] you know,

[01:08:48] Andrew,

[01:08:49] here’s some ads.

[01:08:50] I don’t have a better pivot

[01:08:50] right now.

[01:08:51] There’s no pivot.

[01:08:55] Hi.

[01:08:55] This is Jo Winterstein,

[01:08:57] host of the

[01:08:57] Spirit Daughter podcast.

[01:08:59] Where we talk about

[01:09:00] astrology,

[01:09:01] natal charts,

[01:09:02] and how to step into

[01:09:03] your most vibrant life.

[01:09:04] And I just sat down

[01:09:05] with a mini driver.

[01:09:06] The Irish traveler said

[01:09:07] when I was 16,

[01:09:08] you’re going to have

[01:09:09] a terrible time with men.

[01:09:11] Actor,

[01:09:12] storyteller,

[01:09:13] and unapologetic

[01:09:15] Aquarian visionary.

[01:09:17] Aquarius is all about

[01:09:18] freedom loving

[01:09:19] and different perspectives.

[01:09:21] And I find a lot of people

[01:09:22] with strong placements

[01:09:23] in Aquarius,

[01:09:24] like,

[01:09:24] are misunderstood.

[01:09:26] A sun and Venus

[01:09:27] in Aquarius

[01:09:27] in her seventh house.

[01:09:29] Spark,

[01:09:29] her unconventional

[01:09:30] approach to partnership.

[01:09:32] He really has taught me

[01:09:33] to embrace people

[01:09:34] sleeping in different rooms

[01:09:35] on different houses

[01:09:36] and different places,

[01:09:37] but just an embracing

[01:09:38] of the is-ness

[01:09:39] of it all.

[01:09:40] If you’re navigating

[01:09:41] your own transformation

[01:09:42] or just want a

[01:09:43] chart side view

[01:09:44] into how a leading artist

[01:09:45] integrates astrology,

[01:09:47] creativity,

[01:09:48] and real life,

[01:09:49] this episode

[01:09:50] is a must listen.

[01:09:52] Listen to the

[01:09:52] Spirit Daughter podcast

[01:09:53] starting on February 24th

[01:09:55] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:09:57] Apple Podcasts,

[01:09:58] or wherever you

[01:09:59] listen to your podcasts.

[01:10:00] This is Ryder Strong

[01:10:01] with a podcast called

[01:10:02] The Red Weather.

[01:10:04] In 1995,

[01:10:05] my neighbor

[01:10:05] and a trainer

[01:10:06] disappeared from a commune.

[01:10:08] It was nature

[01:10:09] and trees

[01:10:09] and praying

[01:10:10] and drugs.

[01:10:11] So no,

[01:10:12] I am not

[01:10:13] your guru.

[01:10:15] Back then,

[01:10:16] I lied to everybody.

[01:10:17] They have had this case

[01:10:18] for 30 years.

[01:10:20] I’m going back

[01:10:21] to my hometown

[01:10:22] to uncover the truth.

[01:10:24] You can now binge

[01:10:25] all episodes

[01:10:25] of The Red Weather

[01:10:26] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:10:27] Apple Podcasts,

[01:10:28] or wherever you get them.

[01:10:29] Get your podcasts.

[01:10:31] Segregation in the day,

[01:10:33] integration at night.

[01:10:35] When segregation was the law,

[01:10:37] one mysterious Black club owner

[01:10:39] had his own rules.

[01:10:41] We didn’t worry about

[01:10:41] what went on outside.

[01:10:43] It was like

[01:10:44] stepping in another world.

[01:10:46] Inside Charlie’s place,

[01:10:48] Black and white people

[01:10:48] danced together.

[01:10:50] But not everyone

[01:10:51] was happy about it.

[01:10:53] You saw the KKK?

[01:10:55] Yeah.

[01:10:56] They were dressed up

[01:10:57] in their uniform.

[01:10:58] The KKK

[01:10:59] KKK set out

[01:11:00] to raid Charlie,

[01:11:01] take him away from here.

[01:11:03] Charlie

[01:11:04] was an example

[01:11:05] of power.

[01:11:08] They had to crush him.

[01:11:11] From Atlas Obscura,

[01:11:12] Rococo Punch,

[01:11:13] and Visit Myrtle Beach

[01:11:14] comes Charlie’s Place.

[01:11:16] A story that was

[01:11:17] nearly lost to time.

[01:11:19] Until now.

[01:11:20] Listen to Charlie’s Place

[01:11:21] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:11:23] Apple Podcasts,

[01:11:24] or wherever you get

[01:11:25] your podcasts.

[01:11:29] Segregation in the day,

[01:11:32] integration at night.

[01:11:35] When segregation was the law,

[01:11:37] one mysterious Black club owner

[01:11:39] had his own rules.

[01:11:40] We didn’t worry about

[01:11:41] what went on outside.

[01:11:43] It was like

[01:11:43] stepping in another world.

[01:11:45] Inside Charlie’s place,

[01:11:47] Black and white people

[01:11:48] danced together.

[01:11:50] But not everyone

[01:11:51] was happy about it.

[01:11:53] You saw the KKK?

[01:11:55] Yeah.

[01:11:55] They were dressed up

[01:11:56] in their uniform.

[01:11:58] The KKK,

[01:11:58] the KKK set out

[01:11:59] to raid Charlie,

[01:12:01] take him away from here.

[01:12:03] Charlie was an example

[01:12:05] of power.

[01:12:07] They had to crush him.

[01:12:10] From Atlas Obscura,

[01:12:12] Rococo Punch,

[01:12:13] and Visit Myrtle Beach

[01:12:14] comes Charlie’s Place.

[01:12:16] A story that was

[01:12:16] nearly lost to time.

[01:12:18] Until now.

[01:12:20] Listen to Charlie’s Place

[01:12:21] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:12:23] Apple Podcasts,

[01:12:24] or wherever you get

[01:12:24] your podcasts.

[01:12:28] And we’re back.

[01:12:35] There’s a lot that I feel bad

[01:12:37] about not including

[01:12:37] in these episodes

[01:12:38] that I want to.

[01:12:39] We’re not talking about

[01:12:39] Howard Litnick, right?

[01:12:40] Like the fucking

[01:12:41] Trump’s Commerce Secretary,

[01:12:43] who’s also the custodian

[01:12:44] of like the Tether Reserves.

[01:12:46] And that’s very tied

[01:12:48] to fucking,

[01:12:49] and tied to Jeffrey Epstein, right?

[01:12:51] We’re not talking about

[01:12:52] a lot of stuff

[01:12:52] that is really important

[01:12:53] because there’s just

[01:12:54] too much to talk about

[01:12:56] that we already have

[01:12:56] in these episodes.

[01:12:57] But I would feel bad

[01:12:58] if I didn’t end

[01:13:00] by coming back

[01:13:01] to the bromance

[01:13:02] between Jeffrey Epstein

[01:13:03] and Steve Bannon, right?

[01:13:04] Oh, sure.

[01:13:05] Now, as I said earlier,

[01:13:06] both are in each other’s orbit

[01:13:07] for years

[01:13:08] before they got connected.

[01:13:09] Officially in 2017

[01:13:10] by Michael Wolff,

[01:13:11] or at least that was,

[01:13:12] you know,

[01:13:13] the best estimate

[01:13:15] that I found previously.

[01:13:16] But there is evidence

[01:13:17] that it goes back earlier.

[01:13:19] And on Sunday,

[01:13:19] December 18th of 2016,

[01:13:21] Epstein emails Brock Pierce

[01:13:23] asking if he’d had a chance

[01:13:24] to meet with Bannon, right?

[01:13:25] Epstein’s asking,

[01:13:26] hey, did you meet

[01:13:26] with Bannon yet?

[01:13:27] And Brock says,

[01:13:28] yes.

[01:13:29] And Epstein says Bannon

[01:13:30] seems like the pretty

[01:13:31] smart puppet master.

[01:13:32] Brock vouches for Bannon

[01:13:34] and says like,

[01:13:34] yeah, I’ve relied on him

[01:13:35] for years.

[01:13:36] And it’s after this point

[01:13:37] that Steve and Jeffrey

[01:13:37] talk an awful lot.

[01:13:39] So it may have been

[01:13:40] that, you know,

[01:13:42] in 2017,

[01:13:42] they start talking

[01:13:43] after, you know,

[01:13:45] this conversation

[01:13:46] December of 2016.

[01:13:47] But also the fact

[01:13:49] that Epstein’s asking Brock

[01:13:50] if he’d had a chance

[01:13:51] to meet with Bannon

[01:13:52] suggests that he’s aware

[01:13:53] of Bannon

[01:13:53] and is interested

[01:13:54] in what he’s doing

[01:13:55] and saying, you know,

[01:13:57] maybe because they knew

[01:13:58] each other

[01:13:58] or maybe because

[01:13:59] they were kind of

[01:13:59] socially distant

[01:14:01] but still somewhat,

[01:14:02] I don’t exactly know, right?

[01:14:04] But it’s telling

[01:14:05] that he’s like,

[01:14:06] Bannon seems like

[01:14:07] a pretty good puppet master

[01:14:08] in 2016.

[01:14:11] Here’s Politico’s

[01:14:12] summary of their relationship.

[01:14:14] The two texted frequently

[01:14:15] about everything

[01:14:15] from the TV show

[01:14:16] Chernobyl

[01:14:17] and a guessing game

[01:14:18] over who penned

[01:14:18] the 2018 anonymous

[01:14:20] New York Times op-ed

[01:14:21] to their efforts

[01:14:22] to influence

[01:14:22] international geopolitics,

[01:14:24] including shaping

[01:14:25] Europe’s governing coalitions,

[01:14:27] ramping up pressure

[01:14:27] on China,

[01:14:28] and,

[01:14:28] and forging business ties

[01:14:29] in the Middle East.

[01:14:30] Bannon, at one point,

[01:14:31] took credit

[01:14:32] for convincing Trump

[01:14:33] in 2018

[01:14:33] to impose massive tariffs

[01:14:35] on China,

[01:14:36] gabbed with Epstein

[01:14:37] about his

[01:14:37] We Build the Wall endeavor

[01:14:38] that would later end

[01:14:39] in a federal indictment

[01:14:40] and presidential pardon,

[01:14:41] and gossiped about

[01:14:42] the latest developments

[01:14:43] in special counsel

[01:14:44] Robert Mueller’s investigation

[01:14:45] in which Bannon

[01:14:46] was a subject.

[01:14:48] They’re talking

[01:14:48] about everything,

[01:14:49] especially their crimes.

[01:14:51] And don’t forget

[01:14:52] that HBO

[01:14:53] limited run show.

[01:14:55] I mean,

[01:14:56] it is like,

[01:14:56] like,

[01:14:57] largely an exercise

[01:14:58] in guilt by association,

[01:15:00] but it is like

[01:15:00] the most damning.

[01:15:03] I mean,

[01:15:03] it’s not even.

[01:15:04] It’s just like

[01:15:05] the evidence,

[01:15:06] it’s like the pattern

[01:15:07] continues to build

[01:15:09] and it is like,

[01:15:11] you know,

[01:15:12] again,

[01:15:12] this goes back to

[01:15:13] my biggest thing

[01:15:14] has been like,

[01:15:15] the fuck was Trump thinking

[01:15:16] with Release the Epstein Files?

[01:15:18] Really?

[01:15:18] Like,

[01:15:18] what did he hope

[01:15:19] to accomplish?

[01:15:21] I don’t think

[01:15:22] he had much choice.

[01:15:23] I don’t think he’s

[01:15:24] at his full powers,

[01:15:25] you know?

[01:15:25] And unfortunately,

[01:15:27] when you,

[01:15:27] you get your whole base

[01:15:28] obsessed with the idea

[01:15:29] that these explain everything,

[01:15:31] you kind of have to.

[01:15:32] But why start?

[01:15:34] Why start on this?

[01:15:35] You knew what was

[01:15:35] in this shit, man.

[01:15:37] Arrogance.

[01:15:38] I don’t,

[01:15:38] you know,

[01:15:38] I think it was a lot

[01:15:40] of other people,

[01:15:41] like,

[01:15:41] fucking,

[01:15:42] Trump used it,

[01:15:43] but Trump wasn’t the,

[01:15:44] Trump left to his own devices.

[01:15:46] He wouldn’t have had the idea

[01:15:47] to hang Epstein

[01:15:48] on these guys

[01:15:49] because he’s,

[01:15:49] he talks about Clinton

[01:15:50] now as a friend,

[01:15:51] right?

[01:15:52] Yeah.

[01:15:53] Yeah.

[01:15:53] So in their private correspondence,

[01:15:55] Epstein and Bannon

[01:15:56] are very open

[01:15:57] about their disdain,

[01:15:58] for Donald Trump.

[01:15:59] Epstein calls him a grifter,

[01:16:01] and Bannon repeatedly

[01:16:02] uses the term

[01:16:02] stable genius

[01:16:03] to mock his former boss.

[01:16:05] The two got along

[01:16:06] because they both

[01:16:07] had a vested interest

[01:16:08] in destroying the establishment

[01:16:09] as it existed.

[01:16:11] Bannon gave Epstein advice

[01:16:12] on rehabilitating his image

[01:16:13] after his arrest,

[01:16:14] even as Epstein himself

[01:16:16] acted as a free advice giver

[01:16:17] to all the famous men

[01:16:18] impacted by Me Too.

[01:16:20] The two men

[01:16:20] were very direct

[01:16:21] about their plans

[01:16:22] to subvert democracy.

[01:16:23] In July of 2018,

[01:16:24] they talked about

[01:16:25] hiring hackers,

[01:16:26] or otherwise working

[01:16:26] to get them

[01:16:27] on our side,

[01:16:28] Epstein included links

[01:16:30] to the website

[01:16:30] for hacking convention

[01:16:31] DEF CON

[01:16:32] as he pondered

[01:16:32] how they might influence

[01:16:33] these people,

[01:16:34] and it’s very clear

[01:16:34] from these emails,

[01:16:35] neither of these guys

[01:16:36] know much about hacking.

[01:16:37] Although,

[01:16:38] one reveal from the Epstein files

[01:16:40] is that at least

[01:16:41] per Epstein’s claims

[01:16:42] in the files,

[01:16:43] Epstein claims

[01:16:44] Peter Thiel was funding

[01:16:45] Nazi hacker Weave

[01:16:47] for years,

[01:16:48] which I do believe.

[01:16:50] Yeah.

[01:16:50] Yeah.

[01:16:53] So Bannon asks,

[01:16:54] hey, do you know

[01:16:55] any of these guys?

[01:16:56] And Epstein responds,

[01:16:57] some of the founders

[01:16:58] organized them.

[01:16:58] They’re the most

[01:16:59] dangerous force

[01:17:00] in today’s society,

[01:17:01] by far.

[01:17:02] Bioweapons pale

[01:17:03] due to blowback.

[01:17:03] Nuclear,

[01:17:04] a 60-year-old technology.

[01:17:05] What other 60-year-old

[01:17:06] tech frightens you?

[01:17:07] Space frontier.

[01:17:08] Can’t operate

[01:17:09] without software.

[01:17:11] So basically he’s saying

[01:17:11] like hackers are scarier

[01:17:13] than nukes

[01:17:13] or bioweapons.

[01:17:14] Yeah.

[01:17:15] Which is also

[01:17:15] a dumb thing to say.

[01:17:16] Cool, man.

[01:17:17] Bannon asks if he thinks

[01:17:18] these kind of people

[01:17:19] can be bought,

[01:17:20] and Epstein says yes,

[01:17:21] and he excitedly explains

[01:17:23] you can buy hacks,

[01:17:23] you can buy

[01:17:24] zero-day exploits,

[01:17:25] right?

[01:17:25] Oh, sure.

[01:17:26] You can see that

[01:17:26] in the email on here, too.

[01:17:27] And he says

[01:17:29] in other emails

[01:17:29] that he’s wrestling

[01:17:30] with the task

[01:17:31] of getting hackers

[01:17:31] who would work for Bannon

[01:17:33] and could maybe find

[01:17:33] a zero-day-to-target

[01:17:34] crypto wallets

[01:17:35] or voting booths,

[01:17:37] right?

[01:17:38] Now, there’s no evidence

[01:17:39] they did this,

[01:17:40] certainly,

[01:17:41] and Epstein is going

[01:17:42] to have other concerns

[01:17:44] very soon after

[01:17:44] these emails get sent.

[01:17:46] This may have just been

[01:17:47] another example

[01:17:47] of him bloviating,

[01:17:48] but it shows how he

[01:17:49] and Bannon are thinking,

[01:17:50] right?

[01:17:50] And that’s meaningful.

[01:17:52] At least there’s a lot more.

[01:17:54] At least they’re dumb.

[01:17:55] Do people still say

[01:17:56] script kitty?

[01:17:57] I can’t believe,

[01:17:58] you know,

[01:17:59] Epstein’s down here

[01:18:00] buying script kitty.

[01:18:02] Oh, script,

[01:18:03] I don’t think it’s

[01:18:04] super relevant these days.

[01:18:06] Not anymore.

[01:18:07] That’s Epstein, though.

[01:18:08] Oh, I could buy

[01:18:09] an exploit.

[01:18:11] Sure, man.

[01:18:12] Carly Rae Jepstein.

[01:18:14] Yeah, good stuff.

[01:18:16] He’s, I don’t know,

[01:18:17] if this is what I’ve got,

[01:18:18] there’s an interview

[01:18:19] between him and Bannon,

[01:18:21] but, like, Bannon was trying

[01:18:22] to make a documentary

[01:18:23] on his friend

[01:18:23] that’s really telling

[01:18:25] that I may break down

[01:18:26] later for you guys.

[01:18:27] But I think this is enough

[01:18:29] for now.

[01:18:32] I’m tired.

[01:18:33] Thanks, Robert.

[01:18:34] I’m tapping out, personally.

[01:18:36] Yeah, let’s be done.

[01:18:37] I may be dead from this.

[01:18:38] Oh, my God.

[01:18:39] But I think there’s also, like,

[01:18:40] the trove is endless.

[01:18:42] Mm-hmm.

[01:18:43] The trove is endless.

[01:18:44] Endless content.

[01:18:45] We could do many more parts

[01:18:46] than we might end up having to,

[01:18:48] but I’d like to be done now.

[01:18:49] Maybe Jeffrey Epstein

[01:18:50] really just sacrificed himself

[01:18:52] for the global content mines,

[01:18:54] you know,

[01:18:55] to ensure that there were

[01:18:55] plenty of podcasts

[01:18:56] and YouTube videos.

[01:18:58] Think about it.

[01:18:58] I’d love to be done.

[01:18:59] Think about it.

[01:19:00] It hurts.

[01:19:01] Yeah.

[01:19:01] This was painful.

[01:19:04] Okay.

[01:19:05] All right.

[01:19:05] I’m done.

[01:19:06] Goodbye.

[01:19:07] Goodbye.

[01:19:07] Are we done done?

[01:19:08] Done done.

[01:19:08] Yeah.

[01:19:09] Okay.

[01:19:12] Behind the Bastards

[01:19:13] is a production

[01:19:14] of Cool Zone Media.

[01:19:15] For more from Cool Zone Media,

[01:19:17] visit our website,

[01:19:18] coolzonemedia.com,

[01:19:19] or check us out

[01:19:20] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:19:21] Apple Podcasts,

[01:19:22] or wherever you get

[01:19:23] your podcasts.

[01:19:25] Full video episodes

[01:19:26] of Behind the Bastards

[01:19:27] are now streaming

[01:19:27] on Netflix,

[01:19:28] dropping every Tuesday

[01:19:29] and Thursday.

[01:19:30] Hit Remind Me on Netflix

[01:19:31] so you don’t miss an episode.

[01:19:33] For clips

[01:19:33] and our older episode catalog,

[01:19:35] continue to subscribe

[01:19:36] to our YouTube channel,

[01:19:37] youtube.com

[01:19:38] slash

[01:19:38] at Behind the Bastards.

[01:19:40] We love

[01:19:41] about 40% of you,

[01:19:43] statistically speaking.

[01:19:47] Talking to your kids

[01:19:48] about the dangers

[01:19:48] of vaping can be hard.

[01:19:50] Getting them to listen

[01:19:50] to hot gossip

[01:19:51] is easy.

[01:19:52] So here’s some drama

[01:19:53] you could share with your kid.

[01:19:56] Dude,

[01:19:57] did you hear

[01:19:57] about Cassie and Jake?

[01:19:59] No.

[01:20:00] But did you hear

[01:20:00] that vaping can cause

[01:20:01] irreversible lung damage

[01:20:02] and nicotine affects

[01:20:03] brain development?

[01:20:04] Nuh-uh.

[01:20:06] You don’t need to gossip

[01:20:07] if you want to have

[01:20:08] an open conversation

[01:20:09] about vaping.

[01:20:10] So if you want to get tips

[01:20:11] on when and how

[01:20:11] to talk to your kids,

[01:20:13] visit talkaboutvaping.org.

[01:20:14] Brought to you by

[01:20:15] the American Lung Association

[01:20:16] and the Ad Council.

[01:20:17] Almost 30 years together,

[01:20:19] four kids,

[01:20:19] and some of reality TV’s

[01:20:21] most unforgettable moments,

[01:20:22] we’re taking you

[01:20:23] behind the scenes

[01:20:24] in our podcast

[01:20:25] Between Us

[01:20:26] with me,

[01:20:26] Heather Dubrow.

[01:20:27] And me,

[01:20:28] Terry Dubrow.

[01:20:28] The unfiltered,

[01:20:29] behind-closed-doors

[01:20:30] conversations

[01:20:31] you wish you could

[01:20:32] eavesdrop on.

[01:20:33] And plenty of

[01:20:34] did-they-just-say-that

[01:20:35] moments.

[01:20:36] But what’s the latest

[01:20:37] rumor on gay, right?

[01:20:38] First of all,

[01:20:39] if I were gay,

[01:20:40] I would be

[01:20:40] gay!

[01:20:42] Open your free

[01:20:43] iHeartRadio app,

[01:20:44] search Between Us,

[01:20:45] and listen now.

[01:20:48] Hi, I’m Danielle Robay,

[01:20:50] host of Bookmarked,

[01:20:51] the podcast

[01:20:51] by Reese’s Book Club.

[01:20:53] And this week on Bookmarked,

[01:20:54] we’re basically hosting

[01:20:55] the Ultimate Girls Night.

[01:20:56] Reese Witherspoon,

[01:20:57] Jennifer Garner,

[01:20:58] Judy Greer,

[01:20:59] Rita Wilson,

[01:21:00] and Gowrie Rice

[01:21:01] and author Laura Dave.

[01:21:03] These are the women

[01:21:03] behind season two

[01:21:04] of the Apple TV series

[01:21:06] The Last Thing He Told Me.

[01:21:08] We’re talking about

[01:21:08] turning a book

[01:21:09] into a hit show

[01:21:11] and what it really takes

[01:21:12] to bring a story to life.

[01:21:14] The most important metric

[01:21:15] for me is

[01:21:17] do I want to share

[01:21:17] this book with somebody?

[01:21:19] That’s what creates community

[01:21:20] and that’s the main thesis

[01:21:21] of our book club

[01:21:22] and why we started it

[01:21:23] was just to connect

[01:21:24] people together.

[01:21:26] Listen to the book

[01:21:26] Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club

[01:21:27] podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:21:30] Apple Podcasts,

[01:21:31] or wherever you get

[01:21:32] your podcasts.

[01:21:56] Listen to DJ Hester Prynne’s

[01:21:58] Music is Therapy

[01:21:59] on the iHeartRadio app,

[01:22:01] Apple Podcasts,

[01:22:02] or wherever you get

[01:22:03] your podcasts.

[01:22:04] This is an iHeart Podcast.

[01:22:07] Guaranteed human.

Visão de gráfico